Gouldian Genetic question

[Anne73]

Playing with the genetic forcast program for gouldian finches has brought up a question on offspring. If mating two split for blue birds, for the offspring there would be some birds that are split for blue, and others that are not. Is there no way to tell the difference between these offspring though - as to which is split for blue and which is not?

[L in Ontario]

There is no visible way to tell if a Gouldian is split for blue or is normal - until you breed them... and it may take several breedings for a blue, pastel or silver to show up in a clutch.

I have a normal looking hen that I was told was split to blue. It took 4 clutches for her to produce blue and silver babies. The 3 previous clutch all resulted in normal looking babies. She was always paired up with a split to blue or blue Gouldian male

[debbie276]

Liz is right, there is no visible way to tell if your gouldian is split for blue.

[finchmix22]

I don't have gouldians, but how do you make choices for pairings if you are not sure what they will produce? In the example of a split to blue with a blue, wouldn't you get some blues in any clutch? I may not understand this gouldian genetic stuff, but I"m trying to learn.

[Anne73]

Did your finch (when paired with the blue gouldian male ) produce the same results as when paired with a split for blue male? With the forcast program, it looked like you are twice as likely to end up with blue or silver offspring, (50% vs. 25%) if the one parent was a blue, compared to if they were both split to blue. I am curious now, as to how that plays out in real life breeding results?

[L in Ontario]

I don't have gouldians, but how do you make choices for pairings if you are not sure what they will produce? In the example of a split to blue with a blue, wouldn't you get some blues in any clutch? I may not understand this gouldian genetic stuff, but I"m trying to learn.

Lots of (maybe most?) people go with putting a pretty finch with a pretty finch to get... even prettier babies! If you're looking for a specific coloured offspring then you'd need to know your genetics/geneology or have a forecaster at your fingertips. Even with a forecaster - the results are not guaranteed nor a sure thing as there may be splits involved that you (or even the breeder) are not aware of (such as head and breast splits).

[L in Ontario]

Did your finch (when paired with the blue gouldian male ) produce the same results as when paired with a split for blue male? With the forcast program, it looked like you are twice as likely to end up with blue or silver offspring, (50% vs. 25%) if the one parent was a blue, compared to if they were both split to blue. I am curious now, as to how that plays out in real life breeding results?

Yes - lots of green (split to blue) babies when paired with a blue male and a split to blue male. When I paired her up with a pastel male - I got greens, yellows, blues and a silver hen from them. NOT all in the same clutch.

It's all in the 'roll of the dice' - you never know the outcome adhead of time when you have a split Gouldian.

[nixity]

Statistics are really only applicable when dealing with large numbers - so you can't look at an outcome statistic which says 50% and literally expect half of your offspring in a single clutch to be this, and half to be that.

Like Liz said, it's all a roll of dice.
But yes, statistically speaking, breeding a /Blue bird with a Blue bird will generally result in a larger number of blue offspring (you'll also always know the normal offspring are /Blue this way).

Perfect example: I had a DF Yellow/Blue male x Silver hen pairing
Statistically, I'm supposed to get:
25% DF Yellow/Blue Males
25% Silver Males
25% Yellow/Blue Hens
25% Silver Hens

So, 50/50 Yellow/Silver

Their first clutch was 6 babies: 5 silvers, 1 yellow

Second clutch: 3 yellows, 1 silver

It's a crap shoot..

[ac12]

Deborah
I target a specific color offspring that I want.
Then I use the forecaster to predict the possible offspring of various combinations of parents. That helps my plan which birds I will pair up.

Because I am not into genetics, I need the forecaster to predict this for me.

Example, I want BH-WB-BB chicks.
I paired up a BH-WB-BB male with a RH-WB-GB/BB hen.
The males will all be RH (don't want these) but the hens will be BH-WB-BB (these I want).

I plan to try a different pairing next season BH-WB-BB male with a BH/YTB-PB/WB-GB/BB female. If the hen is really /BB I should get the BH-WB-BB male chicks I want (not all the males but hopefully some of them).