Pastel and Silver gouldians

[GOULDYGIRL]

Candace, good to see you and thanks for your explaining it so I can somewhat understand

Renee

[CandoAviary]

Hey Renee, it took me a while to get "it" and then I finally had to break down and buy the gouldians and their mutation book and do my homework
The picture that Domenic posted is a great example of the single factor purple breast blueback. Since this male got only one factor of yellow and has a purple breast the blue is not totally blocked so there is blue coloring retained on the back. You can tell that the melanins are somewhat blocked due to the lack of black around the head and being replaced by grey.
On Carol's bird even though the bird has a purple breast it has a double factor of yellow thus surpressing the melanins so that the back receives no blue. So when it comes to these with purple breast it is a matter of blue on the back =SF. Silver on the back = DF.
It gets a little trickier with lighter colored breast because even more melanin has been surpressed, that is when the chin/bib color helps out. You also have to keep in mind that different lines will have different colors.... just like 2 sisters can have red hair but they could be different shades. Same genes but with different outcomes.
The fact that other names are given to single factor birds does not help the ease of understanding. With names like dilute, pastels, powder blues, sf silvers given for the a gouldian that receives one pastel. So many names for the same mutation is enough to make anyone question Pastel really means in the world of genetics 'yellow'. Around the world this is how most of the mutations are referred to. For instance what is known to the hobby breeder as a RH PB GB dilute is correctly termed a RH PB single pastel Green
To the hobby breeder a RH PB blue pastel is a RH PB single pastel Blue
To the Hobby breeder a RH WB SB is a RH WB double pastel Blue.
The pastel gene works by altering the melanins. In a green back bird the pastel will change a bird to a yellow. In a Blue back bird the pastel gene will change the bird to a silver. Whether they inherit one or two pastel genes (single or double) will determine how pure yellow or silver they are.
I love looking at the genetic forcastor to see what a certain pairing could produce in mutations but I also know it wouldn't do me a bit of good to produce a mutation if I couldn't recognize what it was I was looking at after it was born

[JRs Gouldians]

Ok, so I went to a show yesterday and one of the vendors had a bird that looked like Liz's bird on the first page.

http://www.finchforum.com/download/file ... &mode=view

The only difference was that it was a BH. So it looked like it was a BH/WB/SB but it still had the blue ring around its neck like the one in the picture above. So I'm curious to know...

1. The correct termonolgy for this bird. I *think* it would be BH/WB/SFSB? because of the blue ring its not a DFSB?
2. How you would go about getting this mutation? (I do not plan to try and get one, just curious on how to get it. The vendor said it was a *RARE* mutation and when I first saw it I thought he crossed a pastel blue with a silver. But that's not it because the only way to have a pastel blue is to have a PB. After doing lots of looking up on the genetic forecaster it looks like you pair a BH/WB/DFSB with a BH/WB/GB-BB is this correct? And on another note to that vendor he would not sell the bird by itself he would only sell the pair and he had it paired with a BH/PB/SB now would that *in your own opinion* be a wrong/bad pairing? I thought so, but was not positive.)

[debbie276]

To get a SFYellowBlue, which is the same as what many call a "pastel" that looks like a silver it needs to have a white breast. If that same bird had a purple breast it would be visually blue with the grey chin aka "pastel".
So from the parents you would need the chick to inherit a WB and a single yellow gene and two blue genes. For example a WB.Yb/Bb (1Yb and 1Bb) male with a WB.Bb (1Bb) hen Or a WB.Bb male with a WB.Yb/Bb hen. You could also get it from the combination you stated and others.
I don't think it's all that rare nor should you pair two "silver" in my opinion.

[Ebichua]

It's threads like these that burn a hole in my wallet! Such beautiful birds everyone!!! Makes me want to go locate some to purchase. Must... Resist...

[annague]

It's no use....

[6finchfriends]

threads like this burn a hole in my brain! but It's starting to sink in little by little. Everyone's birds and every color is truly a work of art! What I need is a good book. I just don't know which one to purchase. Ack-

[HoangQuan]

Another pic of my pastel boy after he had finished the first molt in my place.
Now I have to go for silver.

[debbie276]

Very pretty!

[lovemyfinch]

Handsome young man

[CandoAviary]

Beautiful Bird

[betchacanthavejust1]

My first home bred silver-has pretty much finished his first molt.... along with his clutch mates.. the blue was the last to start so she'll be the last to finish... I'm extremely happy with this clutch.. I love the length on the boys tails... (hatch date was 12/18/2010) photo's taken today... 5/29/11
http://s1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa3 ... am%20Team/

sorry, I haven't figured out how else to send my photo's... this will have to do for now...
Please be patient with me...LOL

[Meagan83]

Carol, your breeding pair looks alot like mine. Anyone else have more pics? I have read though this post like 3x. I love learning about the genetics and looking at the pictures. And once you produce a silver or pastel it drives you harder to learn! I cannot get enough info!