What exactly is a "split"

hilljack13 · Post by **hilljack13** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:33 pm

I have read about zebras being "split" for one thing or another. My quesiton is what is a split really? I'm probably going to be wrong but take the pictue below:

You can see the white female has a black cheek, sorta. Its about half as big as a full fledged black cheek female. Would this mean she is split with black cheek and something else? Any advice here would be great!!

Also my avatar is a product of the two in this picture. He is black cheek, black flank (daddy is brown), and normal grey color.

Fancie Flight · Post by **Fancie Flight** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:04 pm

I dont breed my zeebies so not sure if ya all do things differently.

In Goulds say a Blue cock and a normal hen have young and the baby comes out normal,
She is called SPLIT TO BLUE as 1 parent was blue and even thoush she LOOKS normal she can then go on to throw Blue babies.

So I would ASSUME it is the same in the zeebie er(( Rabbit Finch) world, lol

hilljack13 · Post by **hilljack13** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:23 pm

I see what your saying about the gould, but since I don't know the white finch's parentage I can't say if she is split. But would I be able to assume the offspring (avatar) is split for CFW??

lia-w · Post by **lia-w** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:58 am

I think she maybe split for Pied?

My two pieds (maybe one is split) came out with two babies just like your female. So maybe?

hilljack13 · Post by **hilljack13** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:27 pm

I'm having an issue on this on b/c on one site there is a CWF Black Cheek for sale she looks 100% just like mine.

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:22 pm

Your female is a chestnut flanked white black cheek. If she were only split for black cheek, she would not show the black cheek. Just as most regular CFWs have diluted oranges in the cheeks CFW black cheeks tend to have diluted black in either sex. If you want to produce CFW with really dark black cheeks you will need to start with CFWs with really well defined markings, and bold orange cheeks.

Think of "split" as "hidden. You know the animal carries it because one of the parents was homozygous for the trait.(This is only true with recessives, and gets more complex with dominant, co-dominant, and sex linked mutations). Heterozygous ( split) simple recessives are not visible.Simple recessives must be homozygous to be seen. Basically both parents have to have the gene, whether hidden or visual to produce homozygous animals.

A homozygous to homozygous breeding produces 100% homozygous babies. Have all of the babies produced with this pairing been black cheeked?

With a heterozygous to homozygous breeding you can expect 1/2 of the babies to be split, and half to be of the mutation.

A homozygous to normal(not split) breeding will produce ALL normals that are split. 100% of the babies will be split for the trait.

With a split to split breeding you can expect 1/4 of the babies to be normal ,1/4 to be of visual mutation, and 1/2 of the babies to be split. However, as mentioned above, you can't see splits. and you have no idea which babies are split and which are normals. You have a 66% chance that any of them are split, and 33% chance they aren't.

I breed boa constrictors, and taking a chance with 50% possible splits is a good investment,as boas can breed with multiple partners (so if one turns out not to be split, the next may!) They also have litters of 30 babies, so you have a greater chance of seeing whether the parents are in fact split with only one breeding. If I was investing in finches, I would only buy visuals, or babies produced by breeding a homozygous animal to normal or split.

I think I am rambling, possibly wearing out my welcome, and talking too much for a newbie.

hilljack13 · Post by **hilljack13** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:52 pm

Davey wrote: Have all of the babies produced with this pairing been black cheeked?

Davey - thanks for the post, you help me think of a few things I can try as the breeding seasons pass. To answer your question the babies they produced last year were 1 male, ( my avatar), he also had black flanks unlike his dad with the brown. The had 2 females normal grey color but the black cheek on them were both defined the same as the mom.

Here is little better background as to what I have. The picture below shows my original pair. They are the parents to the male with the CFW-BC female. The baby in the picture are the offspring of the CFW and her mate. They wouldnt take care of them so grandma and grandpa did.

The purpose of the pic, if you can see the female has the black cheek, although not full, it is the same as the CFW. So in the case of the CFW and her mate they both have the ressecive gene, I assume this is how their offspring when male give the black flank. I'm still working on the cheek for females.

Fancie Flight · Post by **Fancie Flight** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:34 pm

ok I have a zeebie question to toss in here on ya,

I always heard that zebs only had cheek patches on one sex.... the other day while speaking to a breeder I was told NO THATS not true, sooooooo???????
Please do tell.

hilljack13 · Post by **hilljack13** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:28 pm

Female's can have patches. If you look a picture of a full fledged black cheek female it's just as large as the male. I think they also have been breed with silver and white cheek patches as well.

Fancie Flight · Post by **Fancie Flight** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 3:45 am

well thats good to know although i do NOT plan on breeding any of mine.

I just discovered tonight I have 2 males 1 female sure hope they keep gettin along ok,

hilljack13 · Post by **hilljack13** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:58 pm

I'm sure they will be ok.

Fancie Flight · Post by **Fancie Flight** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:24 pm

there siblings and about 4 years old so hopefully they will continue to get along ok now that there are only the 3

hilljack13 · Post by **hilljack13** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:06 pm

They should. My babies from last year would only sleep and sing together. They didnt like any other birds around.

hilljack13 · Post by **hilljack13** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:34 pm

Davey wrote:If you want to produce CFW with really dark black cheeks you will need to start with CFWs with really well defined markings, and bold orange cheeks.

Davey - I have thought about getting a male CFW to mate with the CFW female I have. Do you think if they had offspring, wether they showed any black cheek markings or not, that the offspring when paired with another black cheek, normal would produce a good cheek?

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:54 pm

Only time will tell!
I am currently working on a CFW BC project myself. The male Blackcheek I am using has VERY black cheeks. He is also a lightback. The female CFW has very dark tear markings.(they have 5 one week old chicks now)
The other pair is the male in my "dilute zebras" thread, and a female fawn black cheek with very big cheek patches.(they only hatched one, but it is their first clutch)
I am new to zebra finches...well, not new, just been away for about 10 years, so don't know what everyone is doing now. I just think that in order to produce the boldest patterns on an animal when you reduce the background color, you have to start with stock with well defined markings.I think if you have CFWs with faint patches, and you are working them into BC, then the resulting CFW BCs down the road will have only faint grey cheeks.