question about white vs. buff/cream bellies

[msonntag1028]

Hi! I'm getting into keeping and breeding zebra finches and I'm trying to figure out what mutations mine might have. I have a pied hen and a pied cock and they each have some buff/cream color around their vents (the hen more so than the cock) but are otherwise gray (not fawn). They are an inbred pair - sibs from different clutches of the same parents. Their pied mother and one of their pied babies have pure white bellies, while all the others, even the recessive silvers, have some cream/buff around the belly and/or vent area. Can anyone tell me what is up with these white-bellied finches? I've read that buff/cream bellies are normal and pure white bellies might be indicative of a mutation, but they are not CFW or lightback as far as I can tell - it seems to follow an autosomal inheritance pattern. Ideas??

thanks,
Michele

[Jeff McKee]

Most prevalent attributes are pied and Normal Grey.

[LuxandLolita]

The reason some have white bellies is because of the pied, it is probably because the pied feathers decided to go down the belly. Pied does not play by the rules and does what it wants so you get some pretty unique finches with Pied mutations!!
The buff could be a split to fawn but hens tend to have buff bellies. Males can have buff bellies to.

[cindy]

Some zebra mutations have white bellies, some have beige around the vents....pied can play a part in it but the mutuation in the birds background may have been white as well.

this website is filled with good info on mutations
http://www.efinch.com/varieties.htm

[Ameza]

This is really one of the things that just varies between birds. Some have more cream underbelly and others more white. Sometimes a white underbelly is because of the bird is lightback or split to it.

Also like mentioned above the pied gene can play a part in this, the birds probably "have" cream underbellies but the pied white replaces those feathers.

Here is one of my heavily pied birds, but you can see the white feathers left out a place around his vent that is cream.

[msonntag1028]

Hi all,

It seems that the majority opinion is that it's a variation of pied. I hear that, it seems logical and I am familiar with the standard mutations and alleles of each listed on the forum - and like I said, it really doesn't match any other described mutation.

Still .... I just have to know if it will breed out like pied or if I can detect another pattern going on alongside. It *could* be a weak allele of fawn - but it would be a very weak allele and one of the offspring doesn't match the sex-linked pattern. That baby could be a cross-over, but that's one strike against fawn.

My other thought is that it's an autosomal dominant that is not linked to pied - this is what I want to test. (I did some research on this question before posting and I've seen this question asked before on other forums, and the reply is usually "don't know!" or "they just vary" or "pied" ... and again, pied makes sense but I haven't seen any follow-through to determine if that's really the case.)

I'll let you all know if I figure it out!

Ameza - gorgeous little guy! I love the patch on top of his head - most of my pieds seem to have white heads.

(P.S. Breeding zebras with beautiful and interesting mutation combinations is my new hobby/obsession - I have a PhD in genetics but I am not in academia any more, so my birds are a wonderful and entertaining way to scratch that "genetics itch"). You may see me posting a lot on this board!

cheers,
Michele