Heart Shaped Tail Bars(a curiosity)

[LuxandLolita]

I've noticed lately in the birds in my area, that most of them have heart shaped tail bars... I know for a fact that Lolita was split to BB because she had a few feathers that were hourglass, but only moults them in on occasion. However her normal tail feathers generally were normal shaped.
Lux has heart shaped tail bars, Some are more round and some are basically just hearts.

I'm not questioning it, i'm just curious as to how many people have seen it now?
This is a thread a while back that i had thinking it was a split to something... http://finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=19504


Now, Sheena is possibly a recessive silver but i've noticed that she too carries this odd tail bar shape as well. I've attached two pictures(Lux and Sheena's) of my two finch's tail feathers. It seems to be genetic, as Tahny(Lux's Daughter) had them too.. as well as her sisters

[LuxandLolita]

Does anyone know anything about it or have any theories? or have any birds with similar things? i'm just curious, it can be any mutation... THis is more of a discussion thread then anything...

[lovezebs]

Hey there.
Are we talking about the bars on cute Zebbie tails? I am assuming we are. I know that my two reular gray boys have more of a dot and splotch design on their tails which I find kind of odd. I thought it was unique. I think they are brothers and they are both like that. On the other hand, my very pale cfw, has kind of peachy/fawn bars on his tail. And little Miky has none at all because he's white. Who knows what mom nature comes up with? LOL.

[cindy]

These are not markers for any mutation or split. Split to BB is an hourglass shape

hourglass split to BB feather.jpg (6.23 KiB) Viewed 3030 times

full BB

BB male tail.jpg (15.75 KiB) Viewed 3030 times

[fhgwgads]

I would think it is just a trait inherited from the parents. My birds don't always have perfect tail bars. Some of them turn up hourglasses here and there. I have never really paid attention to the shapes of the bars.. but I would imagine that it's similar to a human parent passing on certain features to a child. Not all dots and spots and bars and splotches are perfectly shaped. I have come across several feathers from my birds that are half print half plain.. whether it's the zebra bar pattern, the brown with white spot pattern, or just random splotches of color. To me it looks like the pattern on your birds tails looks more like a heart at the end because that is where the feather ends and comes to a point and the bar happens to be at the tip. The other bars look a little irregularly shaped which I highly doubt indicates anything. Just as some can have irregularly shaped breast bars, or tear marks (one of my birds has a squiggly tear drop), or even irregularly shaped cheeks. Patterns like that can be passed on to children I would assume.

[LuxandLolita]

These are not markers for any mutation or split. Split to BB is an hourglass shape

hourglass split to BB feather.jpg

full BB

BB male tail.jpg

Cindy, THe thread that shows a couple of feathers produced by Tahny's mother( http://finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=19215 ), Tahny also produced multiple of the /BB hourglass feathers but not all of her tail bars were like this. She also showed other signs of a /BB. but if you look at the first picture provided here in this thread, you can actually see one of the hourglass feathers, or part of it at least.. coming in near my finger.

This isn't about a BB indicator, it's a discussion thread based on the fact that they have heart shaped tail bars, Sheena is from a completely different place then Lux was from. Lux is not the bird which carried the /BB, it was Lolita and therefore passed to Tahny. I may have mentioned BB(i'm not looking right now lol) but that's not the point.

I'm just trying to find out if it may potentially indicate a certain split, which it might or might not. I know not all birds have the same patterns or colors or vibrancy, i'm just looking into it as an interest of mine... If that is ok.

[fhgwgads]

LuxandLolita I think what cindy was trying to say was that the only indicator for anything regarding the tail is the hourglass for /BB. The irregular shapes or shapes that resemble a heart on the tail do not indicate anything as far as mutations they are just inherited traits. If you have seen it in your area it may just be that the gene pool in that area has this specific characteristic.. especially if there are a limited amount of breeders in that area.

I would look at it like someone having freckles. Some people have them and some people don't but it doesn't necessarily mean anything. It's harder to relate a situation like this to humans.. but having the "heart" shaped bars doesn't signify a split to something. There are several mutations and zebras have been bred for a long time so the genetics and their characteristics are pretty well documented thus far. But every now and then we come across little quirks here and there that don't necessarily mean it's a whole new mutations.. but each bird has it's own characteristics. Like my girl having a crooked tear mark.. it's interesting to see what characteristics the offspring inherit from their parents both physical and personality-wise. But although the heart shapes are interesting and cute.. they don't signify a split to something.

[cindy]

Thank you fhgwgads.

From all indications Katie...your bird is not split to BB and your irregular bars are not markers for any mutations. The only markers that show in the tail for splits to recessive mutations are the hourglass shape for split to BB and orange tail bars for split to OB.

There is no telling exactly what your bird carries since recessive splits do not always show markers...The only way to find out what your bird carries gene wise is to pair the bird with the mutation either full or split that you think she carries. If a full visual offspring comes from the pairing then you know she carries the gene.

Here are pages for the mutations that are recessive and how to ID splits

http://www.hzebra.com/SplitBB.htm
http://www.hzebra.com/SplitOB.htm
http://www.hzebra.com/SplitBc.htm
http://www.hzebra.com/SplitLBC.htm

I also remember helping with multiple topics regarding your birds discussing markers, feather color, splits.

[LuxandLolita]

*facepalm* obviously i'm not getting my point across, that or i'm too ignorant to see whatever i'm missing.

[cindy]

Katie, top feather....normal

bottom row from left to right

#1 split to BB, #2 split to BB, #3 normal (not split)

heart shape does not indicate split to a mutation.

split to bb

hourglass split to BB feather.jpg (6.23 KiB) Viewed 3005 times

full BB

BB male tail.jpg (15.75 KiB) Viewed 3005 times

I raise BB this is a full BB male

his son

BB male.jpg (39.91 KiB) Viewed 3005 times

[LuxandLolita]

I know for a fact that Lolita was split to BB because she had a few feathers that were hourglass, but only moults them in on occasion. However her normal tail feathers generally were normal shaped.

I was never saying that BB had to do with the heart shaped tail feathers... That's what i have been trying to say

[fhgwgads]

LuxandLolita I don't think anyone is saying that the heart shape has to do with BB. We are just saying that it does not indicate any mutation or split. Cindy is just reiterating the only tail bar traits that do indicate particular mutations. Your post is about heart shapes.. so basically what it comes down to is that heart shapes mean nothing as far as genetics go. They are cool looking and it's interesting how zebras can show certain designs.. and how they can be inherited from parents or even be locale-specific possibly due to breeders in the area or a specific gene-pool.. but they do not specifically mean anything as far as being a flag for a certain mutation whereas hourglasses are (for /BB.. which cindy said and we already know). And cindy was just sharing her photos of what specific tail markings mean and identifying the ones you posted as well. Nobody is trying to argue about anything here.. just sharing knowledge about what we DO know. But although the heart shapes are cute.. they don't have any connection to being split or to any mutation in general. As I said before as well.. I have noticed irregularities in the tail bars of my finches but I never specifically looked for markings that resembled heart shapes. It would be interesting if it is just specific to your area based on the gene pool and it being an inherited trait.

[lovezebs]

Time out! I'd put a smilie here, but son of a gun, I still have no images. Going to try to send a picture of one of my boys' tails. Tell me what you all think of of my baby's tush.

[cindy]

Lovezebs...normal tail bars, no splits...cute birds!!

Katie...I will repeat this again...no heart shapes do not indicate a mutation or split to a mutation.

The only markers in tail bars for splits are the orange in the tail bars indicate split to OB and the hourglass for split to BB.

So in answer to your question heart shapes, dots, blurred edges in tail bars do not indicate a mutation or split to a mutation. Please review the sites I posted in this topic earlier on how to correctly ID split to recessive mutation markers in zebras. I agree with fhgwgads... zebras tail bars can do some odd things but none other than those for recessive OB and BB indicate anything.

[Madcat]

Aww, just in time for valentines day too. Save the feather and make a card for a valentine!