Blue Gouldian Question

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CandoAviary
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Blue Gouldian Question

Post by CandoAviary » Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:12 pm

I have no experience with Blues. I have had several clutches from 2 different pairs that produced blues...surpized me.
I am having a difficult time trying to figure out the head colors. Also are these normal blue back. Both parent pairs were:
Hen BH PB GB/BB
Cock RH PB GB/BB
These 2 are obviously a BH females
Image
Image
I have a couple like this...are these straw headed females?
What is the difference in straw, salmon. tan colored heads?
None of my males heads are changing yet...just the females..... Do females normally mature quicker? Thanks for your input.
Image
Image
Image

debbie276
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Re: Blue Gouldian Question

Post by debbie276 » Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:16 pm

Hi Candace,
From that pairing you will get all RH chicks unless the male is split to BH.
Technically there are no straw head, tan head or salmon heads. The blue gouldians can not express the red color so RH and YH visually look tan, straw or salmon color, but it is either a RH or YH.
I personally don't notice a difference between male and females coloring up at different rates, they color when they are ready. lol
Nice looking birds!
Debbie
long time breeder of lady gouldians:
Green
SF Pastel (SF Yellow)
Pastel (Yellow)
Blue
SF Pastel Blue (SF Yellow Blue)
Pastel Blue (Yellow Blue)

GREAT articles on avian lighting:
https://mickaboo.org/confluence/downloa ... ummary.pdf
http://www.naturallighting.com/cart/sto ... sc_page=56

Meagan83
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Re: Blue Gouldian Question

Post by Meagan83 » Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:19 pm

Beautiful Candace =P~

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CandoAviary
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Re: Blue Gouldian Question

Post by CandoAviary » Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:30 pm

Thank you.

Debbie,
If they are YH what would the color look like? would it look different that the RH? (I know I won't have YH) ...and would it be YTB?
If RH would RTB? Why do you see the terms salmon, straw, etc.
Is this just for desciptive information. Like dirty white breast or ruddy red head?
The fathers were /black...forgot to note that #-o

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nixity
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Re: Blue Gouldian Question

Post by nixity » Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:57 pm

CandoAviary wrote:Thank you.

Debbie,
If they are YH what would the color look like? would it look different that the RH? (I know I won't have YH) ...and would it be YTB?
If RH would RTB? Why do you see the terms salmon, straw, etc.
Is this just for desciptive information. Like dirty white breast or ruddy red head?
The fathers were /black...forgot to note that #-o
You won't see a visual difference between RH and OH genetic blues (which includes blues, pastels, and silvers).

My guess is the terms came about because not everyone pays attention to what the actual genetic make up of the bird is, so it is easier to say "Straw Head" and describe the visual appearance, rather than say "Either Red head or Yellow head, I'm not sure."
;)

The only way to be sure is by knowing the parents genetics (e.g., both were OH Normal/Blue) or by test breeding to an OH normal to see what babies you get. I am doing one of these tests right now with my "straw head" silver hen. I know she can produce OH because when paired to a split I got OH babies - but I want to know whether she's straight OH or not, so I have her paired to an OH Dilute that is possibly /Blue.

Because they can't produce the pigment (though not entirely) responsible for the color, they can't produce it in the beak either, so all genetic blues have ivory colored beaks that do not show red nor yellow.

I have found you get "straw" color red and yellow heads when the blues have PB, and you get "tan" or "sand" colored red and yellow heads when the breast is white.

I believe the presence of the white breast blowing out some of the melanin naturally lightens the color we see in the head (probably also the reason many OH WB birds have VERY bright tangerine Orange heads).

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Re: Blue Gouldian Question

Post by debbie276 » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:45 pm

yeah ... what she said! LOL :lol:
Debbie
long time breeder of lady gouldians:
Green
SF Pastel (SF Yellow)
Pastel (Yellow)
Blue
SF Pastel Blue (SF Yellow Blue)
Pastel Blue (Yellow Blue)

GREAT articles on avian lighting:
https://mickaboo.org/confluence/downloa ... ummary.pdf
http://www.naturallighting.com/cart/sto ... sc_page=56

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CandoAviary
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Re: Blue Gouldian Question

Post by CandoAviary » Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:00 pm

LOL...thanks guys :D So what is the one in the last 3 photos? A RH or a BH....... seems to have a lot of black but in a strange pattern?

Tiffany...that makes a lot of sense....of course they wouldn't have ytb or rtb #-o Thanks again for your insight. :D

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Re: Blue Gouldian Question

Post by Domenic » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:39 pm

I feel like this is the appropriate thread to ask this question in: why is it "bad" to breed bluexblue?
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Re: Blue Gouldian Question

Post by debbie276 » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:07 pm

Candace,
Hard to tell in the picture but is it all done molting to it's adult colors? If so I would say it's a RH or YH, if not then I'd wait and see if you get more black. Just like some of the green back RH's (usually the hens) can have a lot of black, so can the Blues.

As far as breeding blue to blue ... I have had blue to blue breed without any problems. I think if you start with good strong, healthy stock not related you will not have problem. And I know there will be some that disagree.
Just my opinion :)
Debbie
long time breeder of lady gouldians:
Green
SF Pastel (SF Yellow)
Pastel (Yellow)
Blue
SF Pastel Blue (SF Yellow Blue)
Pastel Blue (Yellow Blue)

GREAT articles on avian lighting:
https://mickaboo.org/confluence/downloa ... ummary.pdf
http://www.naturallighting.com/cart/sto ... sc_page=56

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Re: Blue Gouldian Question

Post by L in Ontario » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:13 pm

debbie276 wrote:yeah ... what she said! LOL :lol:
Ditto! =D> :lol:

And I agree with what Debbie said re breeding blue x blue Gouldians. I have no problem and see no problem as long as you start with strong unrelated pairs. That includes silver x blue and pastel x blue as well. I personally also know other breeders that also breed these pairs with no problems.
Liz

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Re: Blue Gouldian Question

Post by CandoAviary » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:50 pm

Domenic,
I think when the mutation was new many breeders bred blue to blue to get more blues...though they were breeding closely related birds. The close family ties probably was the source of the problems. Many times inbred birds don't show their problems right from the start and they just prove to be birds that do not thrive or worse die before 1 year old. Giving the impression that they are a delicate a species/mutation. Gouldians are very hardy birds as are most species as long as outcrossing is done. Now their is such a large gene pool of Blues that it is easy to find blues of unrelated lines.
Though I know a lot of breeders will say never breed them together, blue to blue that is........
I plan on breeding mine to split for blue....maybe yellow... of course it will be next year sometime around Fall before my babies are old enough so I have plenty of time to find them a good mate :D

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