Whats the difference?

[JRs Gouldians]

Tiffany, so would a GB/split to BB also be called a dilute? Because it is carrying a single copy of the blue gene? And I would assume he would be called a SFBB? Correct?

[nixity]

Tiffany, so would a GB/split to BB also be called a dilute? Because it is carrying a single copy of the blue gene? And I would assume he would be called a SFBB? Correct?

Nope - it would just be called a Green/Blue or Normal/Blue (where "/" = "split") - although it wouldn't be "wrong" to say they are single factor blue - it's just not how most people would commonly call them.

The presence of a single blue gene doesn't do anything to "dilute" the color of a green bird like the yellow gene does - this is where the "Dilute" term comes from.
The yellow mingles with the green body color diluting it - like if you were to add yellow paint to green paint

However, a "DILUTE blue" would be another US term for your Pastel Blue, and this is a blue body male that is also single factor for the yellow gene, which "dilutes" the blue color
So basically, adding the single yellow gene onto a blue bodied male dilutes its color - but in this instance it is most like adding white paint to blue paint
The birds appear pastel/diluted blue in color

Confused yet?!

[JRs Gouldians]

Nope! Not at all I think I'm getting the hang of it now! So there is no such thing as a dilute green that is split to blue. Because the blue would be hidden in the green. So a bird that is GB/BB would have a change to produce BB offspring but would show no outer apperance of it. Where as a dilute GB has yellow in its blood which offsets the green on his back making him appear dilute which I assume is where the name comes from. Meaning that a dilute is SFYB because it is only carrying one gene of the yellow and 2 of the green? Right? (something like that) But his offspring could be GB's YB's and dilutes? Am I close?

Heehee learning so much. God I love this!

[L in Ontario]

DF Yellows will not always have the "White" collar around the mask especially if they are purple breasted.
The Purple Breast tends to "Dirty Up" a yellow male.
(Whereas, Lilac or WB DF Yellow males have much cleaner yellow color as well as light collars)
The key factor is that a PURPLE breasted male that is YELLOW will always be DF.
That male is much too bright to be SF and the purple is much too dark to be Lilac.
If he was SF, as well, his head would be a much deeper charcoal color rather than the creamy beige that it appears.

I like to use my male Tang as an example because he has the "blue" collar but he comes from a DF Yellow Male and a Silver hen which means regardless of breast color the only thing he can be is DF..
This is why I don't like using the collar as the number 1 identification tool because it can be misleading.

[ http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u276/nixityphotos/Yellows/IMG_0067.jpg ]

Never fail to lean something new here! Thanks Tiffany.

[CandoAviary]

Never fail to lean something new here! Thanks Tiffany.

I agree Liz...just when you get the basics, then you grasp a little more complex pairings.... then you get thrown in some mofifications like melanistic, pied, etc.... or like Tiffany's Tang, a muddled colored DF yellow and well You are looking at your bird going....hmmmm.... what are you.
Some colors just don't seem to fit into any catagory... But that is what I find so fascinating about these goulds. You may know what you are going to get genetically on paper but what you see sometimes is another matter. That's when you post the picture and hope someone can help you identify what it is.

[nixity]

So there is no such thing as a dilute green that is split to blue.

No - Dilutes can be split for blue. Any bird that is not actually blue (blue, pastel, silver) can carry the blue gene and be split for blue. So you can have Normal/Blue, Dilute/Blue (aka SF Yellow/Blue), Yellow/Blue Hens and DF Yellow/Blue males.

So a bird that is GB/BB would have a change to produce BB offspring but would show no outer apperance of it.

Correct!

Where as a dilute GB has yellow in its blood which offsets the green on his back making him appear dilute which I assume is where the name comes from. Meaning that a dilute is SFYB because it is only carrying one gene of the yellow and 2 of the green? Right? (something like that) But his offspring could be GB's YB's and dilutes? Am I close?

Getting there, yes! ;)

Although it's not entirely accurate to say so, you can think of a Dilute/SFYB as being a male that has "one" yellow copy and "one green copy"

The real picture is there is no single "green" body gene - the green color we see is the result of multiple genes as well as structural blue color blending together to create the green body color we see.
So really, what's happening is that single mutation yellow gene (in a Dilute) is partially suppressing eumelanin (black pigment) and structural blue. This is why the black bib (and other black areas) of the bird appear charcoal in a SF male and white/off-white in a DF male or yellow hen.
Hens can only be SF (it is sex-linked) and have full expression (read: suppression).

DF Yellow males also display full expression because the structural blue and eumelanin are completely suppressed.

SF Yellow males that are White or Lilac Breast "appear" yellow and while it's not completely understood, my guess is because the lilac and white breast are also melanin related (phaeomelanin and eumelanin make up a purple breast; eumelanin alone makes up lilac, and the absence of both = white breast) so the two are likely linked together.

So we can break it down by saying that a green bodied bird is basically composed of the following:

Structural Blue + Lutein (Yellow pigment) = Green (as most of us from HS art will remember that mixing blue and yellow together creates green)

The yellow (or actual term, "Pastel") gene suppresses structural blue; so,
Lutein (Yellow) - Blue = Yellow

The blue mutation works in the reverse. The blue mutation suppresses Lutein (Yellow), so
Blue - Lutein (Yellow) = Blue


A silver bird results when the two genes are combined. So, a genetically blue bodied bird also inherits the yellow mutation.
The blue suppresses yellow, and the yellow suppresses blue, so basically a genetic tug of war is taking place where neither pigment can be deposited or is suppressed and the bird is "washed" of color.
No Blue + No Lutein (Yellow) = BLANK (aka White/Off-white)

The less "melanin" present in the head and breast of a silver bird, the "brighter" the Silver color will be. So the "brightest" white silver would be a BH WB DF Yellow Blue male, or a BH WB Yellow Blue Hen (Silver) hen, like this gal:

[CandoAviary]

Beautiful hen Tiffany, It amazes me that you never tire of repeating the genetics course! A true teacher at the heart
JR, If you go to Tiffany's site she has a great course on genetics. Also the Book, gouldians and their mutations is well worth the investment:
A Guide to Gouldian Finches
and their Mutations
Authors: Milton Lewis, Dr. Rob Marshall, Dr. Terry Martin, and Ron Tristram