My beautiful CWFs gave me 4 babies and

[cindy]

I ran your birds based on what they look like through the genetic advisor

CFW male and a white female will give all CFW Babies, this is just based on visual. I believe based on the visual you are adding the tear drops and markings back into the birds using a CFW male with a white female. If you read the article the CFW baibes all look dusted with the black and gray feathering and as they molt the males will turn white with markings, the females will be white with tears and based on what has been written about the visual look of female CFWs they have dustiings or flecks of black and gray...it is part of the look of a CFW female. Their colors will come in...please read the articles by both experts and read what they say aout fledgling...they will have dark heads....my Black cheek CCFWs young had black heads and molted to a beautiful white. Note that the two females on either side of the male on the perch have black flecks on their heads..... THIS IS NORMAL....it is also NORMAL to have black flecks running through the body feather when they are very young, males loose this and females can retain some...PART OF THE MUTATION. Pictures below...

It is ok to use split or other mutation such as a white to get CFW or a mutation you are working towards....take one or two of the young when they color out,mature and put them with a true CFW, female with tears and males marked accordingly and mate those...you will get CFW. Be patient and let the little ones color out. It sounds like the wait will be worth it.

[finchlover1]

Cindy,
Have to laugh. Just noticed my "persistant persuer" name. Who does that. Boy someone here has me pegged!! ROFLOL.

I have been thinking and reading since my last post. If the male CWF is NOT split to white but the female white IS split to CWFs, then the babies will always be CWFs? Can a male be split to white. The teardrops are the give a way, right? If they have them then CWF. If not then a white? Am I getting closer to understanding this?

[cindy]

With zebras they can be splits but the visual is the most important.

If say you have
split to white CFW....CFW/white male
split to white CFW...CFW/white female

You stand a really good chance of getting mostly CFW babies...they carry the white gene factor, since they are visually CFW they carry that gene also.

So if you wanted to you could take the visual CFW/white offspring and pair it with a white or other mutations to get other color mutations...look at the efinch site on CFW....read through it, there are names of other mutation combinations that Roy put together, by adding each mutation to the CFW you get different looks and mutations from them....it is like building blocks, it taes time though.

Right now I put togethere pairs to produce Black Breasted, from there I will take their young and pair them with Florida Fancy....from there I am hoping to get Phaeo, if not from that pairing but from pairing from a 4th generation. Go to efinch varieties and look at each color mutation for zebras, then look at all the possibilites. All the combinations and colors are well worth the wait.

Do not give up on your pair, they are your building block....what you can do is get another pair of CFW (female with a tear, breed those and take the young from that clutch and the clutch pictured to strengthen your CFW bloodline....you will get all CFW.

[finchlover1]

Boy, you have a great passion for this. You really know what you are doing. I will take your lead and be patient. This will give me time to absorb and keep on learning. The babies really are cute. Just never saw coloring like this. Mom and dad are so good taking care of them I've never seen a pair so diligent with their babies. Usually I see feeding the babies while laying more eggs. Not these two. I did notice lack of loud crying from the babies from day one. If mom wasn't feeding, dad was. It was like the babies didn't have time to get hungry! They really are good little birds. Thanks for the info. I really understand it and printed it out. Also, thank you for the encouragement. Lyn

[cindy]

You are very welcome

[finchlover1]

Cindy,
this is the best I can do with getting a pic of mom. In one of the posts you asked for a closer pic:

[cindy]

What a beautiful family!!!!!

[finchlover1]

Cindy,
Thank you! There are 3 more babies just like the one in the picture. I really do love these little guys.

[cindy]

One thing about zebra finch mutations is they can have hidden genes from ancestors in lineage that all the sudden show up, like a draw in the lottery....it took other mutations to create each mutation and imagine it all started with a little gray finch!!!!

Once you start a foundation for the color/mutation and want to breed for a certain mutation then you can start pulling from your offspring and pairing them with others of the same mutation or to create something new add a different mutation.

[finchlover1]

Again, thank you, Cindy. You have to tell me how we get those "names". Mine is so appropriate. It makes me smile everytime I'm here cause my questions are not quick. I ask many, many questions when I have a query. Have a wonderful day. Will be interesting to see if anyone at work sees this thread and comments. You have covered everything but it's always fun to get others ideas. What is you take on trying to breed to make an existing one even better vs a hybrid?

[cindy]

By hybrid are you speaking of two different species like an owl and zebra breeding or are you taliking about blending 2 different mutations...two totally different things!!

Hybrids are rather frowned upon, mixing species like an owl with a zebra can lead to birth defects, infertile birds...etc. It is best not to purposely create a hybrid, keep the species separate and pure. It does happen by accident from time to time and most responsible breeders will pull the birds from their breeding stock.

Now creating different mutations/colors using two or more mutations within say zebras are part of the fun of working with certain each specific species. The shaft tails have a few mutations also. As do gouldians, they have a wide range of mutations/color combinations.

[finchlover1]

I guess I show just ask: should I breed my pair anymore. Are their babies considered a hybrid? I want to keep the CWF and white pure. You are the expert. What would you do?

[cindy]

No, they are not hybrids....Hybrids usually refers to two different species...both parents are the same species just different mutations. like I said before you took one mutation and breed it to another. Take the babies from the clutch and breed those to full CFWs.

You can breed your birds again...or wait until the babies color out to see exactly how they look. That is up to you. I think right now it is a little premature to judge what they will molt into. Even if the mom is a split or white and the dad is a CFW the babies may or are visually CFWs. Just enjoy them.

[Oshtay]

You've encouraged me as well Cindy! I have a CFW pair sitting on 4 eggs now

[cindy]

I am also still learning but find all the different varieties and combinations of mutations are so interesting...CFW is not one I have....yet!!! I am working on black breast (2 pairs matched up) then matching one of the young offspring with a Florida fancy to try for a phaeo!