CFW & Fawn Zebra Genetics

[cindy]

*Squeepers is a CFW male, so he's CFW/CFW.... they can't be split to the visual mutation. So he is just CFW.

*Cecily is Fawn. (Mum was NG, dad was NG, split to fawn and CFW.)

So that means that we can get two possible combos: CFW/Fawn and CFW/NG.............Dante is right NG is dominant and birds can not be split to a dominant gene, they express the gene only visually and must be a visual to pass it on.

You can have a fawn CFW...efinch The combination with fawn requires a genetic phenomenon known as crossing over to occur before CFW and Fawn can be combined. Crossing over is a random occurrence so one cannot predict how long, if ever, before the combination will occur. Fawn-CFWs look similar to gray series CFWs, but all the black markings will be dark brown instead. Once combined the two mutations are linked and will act as one. Some sources have erroneously indicated that the Continental CFW was a combination of CFW and Fawn. This error is probably due to a belief that the cream cast to the back was caused by the Fawn mutation rather than the new mutation. There is also some evidence that points to a modifier gene that causes a cream cast to the back of Regular CFWs that is more commonly seen in CFW-Fawns. Again, this should not be confused with the Continental CFW mutation.

[cindy]

breeding say a CFW hen with a normal gray or split to CFW male will give you normal gray males with white wing edges...the white wing edges are a marker for a split to CFW (in males only, hens can not be split to CFW). White wing edges can also be a marker for lightback (LB). The degree of dark or light gray a Normal gray is can vary, adding other mutations into the blood line can also effect it.

CFW mutation tends to dilute color.... if you breed say a CFW male to a FF hen (florida fancy) your offspring males can have diluted or lighter markings in the cheeks and flank.

[Aspen]

But you still can't get a NG out of a CFW Fawn and a Fawn hen, so that egg must have been laid by one of the NG hens.

[DanteD716]

Aspen it was a CFW male and a fawn hen (possibly CFW) but the hen must have been just fawn in order to produce the grey chick.

[cindy]

But you still can't get a NG out of a CFW Fawn and a Fawn hen, so that egg must have been laid by one of the NG hens.

are you breeding in a colony?

[MiaCarter]

cindy - Yes, there were 2 NG hens in the same cage with Cecily and Squeepers.

I should note that both NG hens had just weaned (which is why I left them in that cage, as I figured they weren't fertile yet. Plus, they were still moulting a bit, so I figured I would just leave them in there until they were a bit older and avoid stressing them unnecessarily.)

I'd removed the grey hens' parents from the cage.

I keep the cage closed down when a couple is nesting, so they don't do free fly and others can't come in and disturb them.
So I'm positive there were no other males in the equation - just Squeepers, the CFW.

[Aspen]

Dante, In the third post in their thread, MiaCarter said that the dad had light skin as a chick and she figured he was of the fawn strain as well as CFW, so that I why I figured he was CFW and fawn both.

I agree that if you have a male carrying one CFW gene and one fawn gene, he will look NG but only throw CFW or NG female chicks. (I have a male that carries LB and fawn and I get both kinds female chicks from him - no NG.)

[cindy]

Mia wrote...

Squeepers is a CFW male, so he's CFW/CFW.

Cecily is Fawn. (Mum was NG, dad was NG, split to fawn and CFW.)

So that means that we can get two possible combos: CFW/Fawn and CFW/NG.

Dante wrote

Aspen it was a CFW male and a fawn hen (possibly CFW) but the hen must have been just fawn in order to produce the grey chick.

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Squeakers is a CFW... you can not be split (/) to something you are already a full visual for.

Cecily is a fawn (she got the gene from her dad) (hens can not be split to CFW)

If she is not a Fawn CFW just a fawn then Dante is right ... the pair would have given CFW hens and gray hens and grey males split to fawn or gray males split to CFW or gray males split to both fawn and cfw.

Male CFW if not paired with a visual CFW will give visual cfw hen and NG/cfw males.

[Aspen]

They are both sex linked mutations. Hen chicks can only get them from dad, so hens have to be CFW. Whether they have F or NG genetics depends if Squeepers has F or NG as his genetic base color, and that can only be figured out by breeding tests, but all hen chicks will appear CFW.

The male chicks will carry CFW (they have to since Squeepers shows it). They will also carry F because mom is fawn. If Squeepers is NG genetically, they have NG from Dad and F from mom, so the males will appear NG. But they will only be able to throw CFW or F female chicks, depending which chromosome the chicks get (cancelling out crossing over which mixes and matches). If Squeepers is F genetically - having two F genes - then the male chicks will appear F (getting it from both mom and dad) but carry CFW.

[cindy]

Here is a picture from efinch on both male and female Fawn CFW http://efinch.com/birdpix/cfwfawn.jpg

http://efinch.com/species/fawnzeb.htm
"Combinations with the other sex-linked mutations requires a genetic phenomenon known as crossing over to occur before Fawn and the other mutation can be combined. Crossing over is a random occurrence so one cannot predict how long, if ever, before the combination will occur. Fawn Lightbacks can be attractive birds, but are not easily distinguished from regular Fawns except for the white belly in both sexes. Fawn CFWs are occasionally seen, but I do not find them that attractive. I think the charm in the CFW comes from the contrast of normal markings on an otherwise white bird. The diluted markings on a Fawn CFW do not have the contrast to make them appealing to me."

Mia do you have a current picture of the family?

[Aspen]

Cindy, is that picture male and female or two females? I don't see any flanking or breast bars on either of them.

[cindy]

Correction... it does not state the sex though the cfw does dilute the fawn, it could be two hens or a male (on the left if you look at the chest looks like a faint breast bar, I blew the picture up you can see a faint flanking) and hen.

I have from another breeder a few FF CFW males that are so dilute you can barely make out the cheeks and flanking and at a quick glance you would think they are hens. Not a fan of the mix... it washes the birds out and I would rather see distinct markings, brighter color.

[cindy]

this is efinch's NG/cfw male http://efinch.com/birdpix/grayzeb1.jpg

[MiaCarter]

Ooh, gobs of great info, cindy!!

Yes, I'll grab some current photos of the family today.

Those CFW fawns - http://efinch.com/birdpix/cfwfawn.jpg - are more like what I was expecting, with a distinct fawn tone.

And for the NGs, I expected him to have perhaps a bit of a light cinnamon-tone on the belly and the lighter edges to his feathers, since there's CFW and fawn in the equation, but he's inexplicably dark!
It's quite odd as all other split-to-CFW/fawn males have this in my flock.
And he *did* fledge with feathers with the light edging on his primary feathers, but they moulted away and a dark feathers without the edging took their place. (Not sure if that means anything)


@Aspen - You're absolutely right. Squeepers is a light-skinned CFW. In fact, that's him as a baby in my profile pic.
He had a pink underside, and a slightly darker topside.
He also had a horn-colored beak until he feathered up and by that time, it turned black.


I should note that all of my CFW babies have had this same coloration. And all come from the same bloodline, which also has Fawn. So I'm not sure if that could play a factor or whether it's just a slight variation that's characteristic of this specific bloodline.


I'm not positive if Squeepers has a fawn gene in there. He could. His egg was fostered to Molly Sue and his mate after his mum died and dad abandoned the nest. I always think of him as Molly Sue's baby (and Molly Sue was a pied NG with splits to CFW, Fawn). I often forget that he wasn't Molly Sue's bio son. He was the only survivor of his clutch and doesn't have any other bio siblings and his dad hasn't fathered any other zebra babies.
So not much background there.

[cindy]

Mia... CFW babies are black, black beak , CCFW babies are pink, pink beak, red eyed....I raise both. I have parents that give both also... the babies are not two toned skin color so there has to be another mutation(s) at play here ...picture belongs to efinch... CFW on left and CCFW on the right

cfw and ccfw babies.jpg (28.16 KiB) Viewed 1676 times

Fawn babies will have buff colored undersides, pink skin and horn colored beak..it can turn a darker brown as it grows. Fawn English fledgling

Feb 2 a female fawn fledgling zebra 2nd clutch.jpg (73.81 KiB) Viewed 1676 times

this is Roy Beckham, efinch's picture... gray next to a fawn baby...

efinch gray next to fawn baby.jpg (25.13 KiB) Viewed 1676 times

to see mouth gapes and close ups of skin and beak color check out http://www.efinch.com/gape.htm

hope this helps. sometimes having visuals right there helps some.