PIED Cordon Blue

[Sally]

I wonder if Chris could send his photos to Marcus Pollard to see what he thinks? It would be great if it is a mutation, but I guess only time would tell for sure anyway. If it is from poor nutrition, etc., then the next molt should show a huge change.

Ray, you referred to CB and BCCB, and I'm confused, different parts of the world use slightly different terms for this species. By CB, do you mean Blue-capped?

[Rayray]

CB = cordon blue
BCCB = blue capped cordon blue
BHCB = brown headed cordon blue
RCCB = red cheeked cordon blue

pictures at : http://www.scapnl.com/index.php?option= ... 18&Itemid=



ray

[cindy]

This is going to sound odd but I have to ask. I was reading about fawn zebras, one article mentioned that if you plan on showing or you want to keep the fawn coloring bright not to let the bird get to exposed to direct sunlight for very long periods since the fawn has a tendency to fade.

Since the CBs have fawn/brown coloring could harsh lighting and/or sunlight actually blanche out a CB's colors also? The article I read stated that the color if faded by the sun will come back after the next molt.

I am not implying this is what happened to Chris' bird, he may very well have a pied. I wanted to ask since we are talking about coloration.

[Sally]

I don't think that could be the case here, cindy, because these birds are from Africa, so exposed to lots of sunlight naturally. I also wouldn't think that a place that breeds to supply PetsMart would have lighting so strong to cause any problems at all. I probably supply more light to my individual cages than some of these larger setups do.

[cindy]

Sally, I asked more for my own information. I am considering moving my birds to a very bright sunny window, I didn't know if the sun would effect the color like they warned about with Fawn zebras.

I've seen the lighting at Petsmart, both stores use a soft type of lighting.

Figured I ask since we were talking CBs, color!

[Chris103]

I tried to find some photos that would show the differences between the RCCB and BCCB hens, but I don't have any great ones. I should try to get some new ones, but in the meantime:

Ahh Thanks for the pictures sally! One question.....where does the blue on the top females head stop for each subspecies? Does it extend above the top of the eye on the BC's?

[Chris103]

okay i think i am gonna blow up a dream

i showed ( the picture addy ) to a few breeders here and asked what they thought about it ...

one who's breeding with CB's and BCCB's as his only birds and having more then 30 breedingcages gave me this answer : he breeding with pied and almost white ones and the normal color , and he thinks its an older bird ( wild caught / own breed ) that was in the hands of people that gave it the wrong food ( and missing vitamins / calcium ) for a long time , sometimes here they find a new mutation with the same thing like only the wings are white but after good food and moulting its loosing the white and the blue / brown comes back . he says its for sure a CB hen and not a BCCB .

the other 3 people that did respond said the same : lack on good food , missing vitamins , missing light , calcium , 2 said its a CB hen , one said its a mix breed hen between CB and BCCB .

for you i hope its a mutation but honestly i think .....

Ray

Thanks for the input. I know that for the last 3 months she was recieving good care at petsmart (since I worked there) A vitamin enriched seed along with cuttlebone and veggies (carrots) everyday. So I am still doubtful on the deficiancy issue.....but certianly not rulling it out until I get some chicks!

Right now she is getting SPOILED with goodies! I have her on a good seed mix, tons of veggies and her favorite mealworms. I've enriched all of these things with spirulina to help with fertility and tons of other things.

Im thinking after she has been on all of this for about a week or two I may pluck out a white flight feather and see what color her new one grows in. Let me know what you guys think about that.

[Sally]

I tried to find some photos that would show the differences between the RCCB and BCCB hens, but I don't have any great ones. I should try to get some new ones, but in the meantime:

Ahh Thanks for the pictures sally! One question.....where does the blue on the top females head stop for each subspecies? Does it extend above the top of the eye on the BC's?

I've just looked at all my hens to double-check, and on the Red-cheeks, the blue goes to just above the top of the eye, then the top of the head is the soft brown. On the Blue-capped, the blue goes to the top of the head, there it varies from one hen to another, but the top of the head has blue mixed in with the soft brown. Now I'm no expert, I've only been doing this for about five years myself.

[Chris103]

Ok thanks Sally, thats very helpful. After looking at at her again Im going to say RCCB but I'll email Marcus Pollard, send him pics and see what he has to say.

[Chris103]

I emailed Marcus Polard and here is what he had to say about the bird:

"Yes, that is a pied cordon we have hundreds of the bloody things here.

We dont have the Blue-breasted waxbill here but that one in your pic does not look like one of those to me anyway and its not a Blue-cap so I'd say you're correct in calling it a pied Red-cheeked cordon.

It is a dominant mutation so my friend informs me... .and therin lies the problem with the opportunity to pollute the normal cordon gene pool.
Be aware too that it will get more "pied" every time it moults as for Red-face parrotfinches.

So any mormal cock Cordon will do if what my mate tells me is true. I have seen them here pure white with only red cheek patches....yippeeee.........yet everyone was going ape over this white "thing"!!''

Yay! Lets hope this one proves to be dominant as well!
I would think that since this is a dominant mutation it would be less likely to pollute the gene pool considering there can be no hidden split genes that you could unintentionally breed. I would be interested to hear what you all think about that. Personally, I always like the natural birds more than the mutations.....but something about them is fun to breed!

[L in Ontario]

...now we'll all be waiting as anxiously as you to see pics of her babies!!

[cindy]

Chris...that is indeed the good news you were waiting for. Now to get a mate and have them settle into breeding. Keep us posted!!!!

[Sally]

Now we'll just have to wait and see what happens with a mate, see if the pied factor gets passed on.

[Chris103]

Let's hope they like each other! I've never been so impatient in my life, and it has yet to began!!! Im sure the pied will get passed on....im just praying for dominant!

Question: Have any of you CB breeders out there ever tried placing two new pairs in a large planted flight to let them pair off naturally? Or are the males just going to fight? Are they generally not too picky about their mates? I would separate them after they paired off.... I would just assume that they may breed better if they picked their own mates.

Im usually not in such a rush to breed lol but I want at least one chick from this hen in case (God Forbid ) something were to happen to her and the genes lost. Does that make sense?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[L in Ontario]

As I understand it, two male RCCB's in a cage WILL fight... a lot.