Advice on society male for breeding specific coloring

[mrshorn]

I'm not sure if this should be here or breeding, but I have some questions about the coloring of the society male I want to get. We unintentionally bred our society finches last year and wound up with a couple stunning ladies that we would like to breed. Our goal is to have babies that look like these two hens. I think the gene came from Donald the dad, and I was thinking I should try to find a male with similar coloring. Please look at the pictures and let me know what you all think as I am not at all good at the dominant vs recessive and only a male carries a specific gene kind of stuff. Thanks a million!

FYI, the first two pictures are of the parents of the two hens. We had two hens with one cock when they bred, so we do not know for sure who the exact mommy is for this mutation.

[CandoAviary]

Lisa...we must be kindred spirits as I too want to produce these....so far no luck here. Here are some post of my 3 ladies that I bought over this past summer. I understand the ino is passed by the father... I have no males that are split for ino so I have produced only normals. I have been wondering if these are split? Since one parent was an ino. Maybe Jenholt will comment and give us some advice.

http://finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8 ... ino#p99980

http://finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 ... ty#p105760

[mrshorn]

So we were a little impulsive and got two new societies today, along with some zebras. We picked these societies because they had the pink beaks and legs like the inos and we are hoping they are carrriers. We do not know for sure if we have males vs. females, but we were thinking that maybe Donald Jr. might be a carrier like his dad was and if one of the new birds was a girl..... Now flash to when we get home and I search "ino society finch" on yahoo and find this:

Genetics: Ino is a sex-linked recessive gene and therefore it is easy to breed.

Males can be split for Ino
Hens cannot be split for Ino. Hens either are Ino or they are not, they cannot carry the gene.
Male Ino X Chocolate hen = Chocolate Males split Ino and Ino hens.
Ino hen X Chocolate Male = Chocolate Males split Ino and normal Chocolate hens.

http://www.zebrafinch.com/SocietyFinch/Ino.html

So if this is exactly accurate, I need a carrier and a chocolate hen to get what I want? I guess that works out because Calypso is a chocolate hen and Donald was a carrier.

I am now a little confused after reading the article. Do male inos ever look like this way, or are they just spilt to ino? The writer says something about getting four inos from Japan two males and two females. I then see another article saying you can get inos from all colors as long as you have the right combo. Can I never get inos from Swan herself? And what is the difference between albino, creamino and ino?

Below are the new societies...

Totally kindred Candace!

[star]

I don't have any info for you, wish I did, but I just gotta say I love those hens!!!!!!!!! I was able to pick up a M/F pair just like them only minus the red eyes. They have black eyes ,and one is crested , the other not. I am going to breed them in a few months. I also love your newbies! So cute! I am a society lover and I want some of every mutation.

Hope you get exactly the society babies you are wanting! Good luck!

[Sally]

I can help you a little with the genetics. I have copied part of the sticky I posted in this forum on sex-linked genetics, so you can see the possibilities. Don't pay attention to the percentages, these were done on a study with a large number of birds, you can get different percentages in a clutch.

Male normal + Female mutation gives you
normal split males 100%
normal females 100%

Male normal split + Female normal gives you
normal males 50%
normal split males 50%
normal females 50%
mutation females 50%

Male normal split + Female mutation gives you
mutation males 50%
normal split males 50%
mutation females 50%
normal females 50%

Male mutation + Female normal gives you
normal split males 100%
mutation females 100%

It appears Donald is the carrier of the gene, so he is split to Ino. Pearl and Calypso are normals, as hens cannot be split--if hens carry the gene at all, they will show it and be Ino.

If your two Inos are hens, then you would want to pair them with split/Ino males, in which case you can get babies that are male normal, male split/Ino, hen normal, hen Ino.

If you pair them with normal males, all male babies will be split/Ino and all hens will be normal.

If either or both of your creamino babies are males, then you can pair them with normal hens and get males that are all split/Ino and hens that are all Ino!

Ino is the mutation gene, and cream simply refers to the color--many people run the two words together for creamino. Pairing your babies with chocolate color will give you the prettiest cream colors. I don't know anything about albinos.

[mrshorn]

Sally!!!!! This is hugely helpful! Thank you so much for explaining all this to me! We got the two new societies, which we have now confirmed are males. So if I am understanding this correctly, if my new males are not carriers and I breed them with with my inos, their male offspring could be split to ino? If that is the case then after that I could breed those split males with another female and get inos? My hubby and I are dying to try this out, but we want the fostered owl baby to be totally independent. Not to mention the males are still being quarantined. I think we are going to put one of the new males in with Calypso (chocolate mommy) and Swan (non-crested ino). Thanks again for all the info!

[Summer Bird]

Sally!!!!! This is hugely helpful! Thank you so much for explaining all this to me! We got the two new societies, which we have now confirmed are males. So if I am understanding this correctly, if my new males are not carriers and I breed them with with my inos, their male offspring could be split to ino? If that is the case then after that I could breed those split males with another female and get inos? My hubby and I are dying to try this out, but we want the fostered owl baby to be totally independent. Not to mention the males are still being quarantined. I think we are going to put one of the new males in with Calypso (chocolate mommy) and Swan (non-crested ino). Thanks again for all the info!

If your new males are not carriers of the Ino gene and you breed them to your Ino females, ALL the resulting male offspring will be carriers of (or "split to") the Ino gene. Female offspring will not carry the gene. Breeding one of the split-to-Ino male offspring to a normal hen should give you some more Ino female babies (statistically, half their female offspring would be Ino).

[Mozelle]

Thanks to all of you! I am also in Love with these lighter side of the societies : ) And you have some gorgeous examples already posted!!

I have just managed to bring home a group of 5 societies. The original owner had no idea who was male/female. One of the birds is just a fledgling: a dark-eyed "white". There is NO coloring on this little one, not a fleck - pure white. But I now understand this is a variation of pied.
So... I have finally learned that there are 3 confirmed males in this group - so by process of elimination, the fawn pied is a female.
That leaves a fawn pied male, two chestnut pied males, and my black-eyed white babe.
Don't know if anyone can help me on this, but if I'm thinking this through clearly then breeding the fawn male to the fawn female will be the most likely route to producing more "white" babes.
Now...
I also have a fawn crested male. If I was to pair him with the fawn pied female... do I stand a chance of a crested, dark eyed white??

Nesting and courting is starting, and it's not too late to shift a pair or two around as far as I know. Any thoughts???