Gouldian phenotypes

chrischris · Post by **chrischris** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:12 am

From what I have been reading crossing a yellow back(male) and a blue back(female) gould will always give you a 100% Dilute males that is split for blue and 100% Yellow females that is split for blue. Is this correct?

If so does it mean that to get a silver gould you have to have in the same gould double factor for blue as well as for yellow?

And what about pastal goulds?

rottielover · Post by **rottielover** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:33 pm

The Yellow back cock would have two "yellow" Z genes (sex gene), it is possible that the yellow cock could have 1 blue gene (since it's not sex linked).

The Blue Back Hen would have to have a Green Z sex gene for her to express the blue color with 2 Blue genes (if she had a Yellow Z gene then the hen would be silver).

So yes, all Cocks produced by this pairing would be dilute (getting 1 green Z from the hen and one yellow Z from the cock). They would also be split for blue.

And since "dad" yas two yellow Z's and mom contributes her W gene, all hen's will be yellow backed.

Of course if the "non blue" parent happens to be split for blue and you don't know it, you'd have to chance to get some blue back babies.

Hope that helps!

chrischris · Post by **chrischris** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:23 pm

AND what about silvers goulds how do they come about?

rottielover · Post by **rottielover** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:28 pm

my understanding is that Silver gouldian is the result of taking a Bird with the Yellow Z gene (would be a yellow back normally) but give it two Blue genes.

In order to express the Blue color, they need two blue genes and a Green Z. If they have a yellow Z they will be silver in color.

I hope I have that right.

chrischris · Post by **chrischris** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:04 am

So a male silver gould would be double factor for blue and as well as for yellow genes.

AND a female would be double factor for blue and single factor for yellow genes.

This would be a hard mix to com by.

rottielover · Post by **rottielover** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:26 am

Correct, and hence the rarity of the silver gouldian.

chrischris · Post by **chrischris** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:44 pm

Have you come across a silver gould? what do you think of their colors?

rottielover · Post by **rottielover** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:14 pm

I have never seen a silver gould "in the flesh" so to speak, only photo's on the internet.

However, my personal opinion is this:

Gouldians are prized because of their many bright colors, why would you want an all "white" bird?

chrischris · Post by **chrischris** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:09 am

I guess it's like having an all white Zebra finch.... It's just different and unique.

Post by **Hilary** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:22 am

I had two silvers - they were lovely, pastel-colored birds. Not as brilliant as a normal, but still beautiful.

chrischris · Post by **chrischris** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:59 am

Did you find them any different from the normals? i.e. being good parents, smaller size, more lethargic, live as long?

I would assume to get a silver you would have to do a lot of inbreeding and therefore imperfections would show up in the silver goulds.

Post by **Hilary** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:50 pm

Unfortunately both died within a couple of months of when I brought them home.

I treated them with S76 for air sac mites when I first got them, but I don't believe the product works - both developed full blown symptoms. I'm sticking with Scatt or Ivermectin from now on.

rottielover · Post by **rottielover** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:58 pm

Hilary, Personally I stick with Ivermectin, my Avaian Vet told me that's the only thing he trusts for the mites. "Over the counter" type products (that can be sold directly to consumers) aren't quite as "potent" as the mixtures that your vet can give you ;)

rottielover · Post by **rottielover** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:14 pm

I love this site: http://www.finchinfo.com/genetics/lady_ ... colors.php

It explains the body color's very well.

Also keep in mind that there are "pastel" birds, and "silver" birds.

Pastel birds usually are Yellow Z / Green Z cocks with double factor for blue (instead of being a dilute). However, if you have a "silver" cock that is NOT whitebreasted it will have pastel colors (refere to above link).

I'm not sure that inbreeding would be needed in order to get "silver birds" since you'd need to start out with yellow back stock and blue back stock...

It would take several blood lines, and a few generations, but one could come up with a breeding plan if one were to sit down and figure it out on paper....

With regards to inbreeding, there is a famous (probably infamous) photo of the "Nobel Blue Gouldian" floating about the net. Well the breeder of this bird refused to be named because "some inbreeding was required to achive this result". As it turned out, the bird molted for it's 2nd molt and turned into a "normal" green back bird. So you could infere the lesson here is "don't mess with mother nature" (at least dont' mess with her too much)....

chrischris · Post by **chrischris** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:50 pm

Thanks for the info and the web site it was very helpful.