My beautiful CWFs gave me 4 babies and

[finchlover1]

they all have grey wash and one has an entire grey head. What's that all about. What does that say about the genetics of the parents? I'm confused at this point: first baby pics: (need more practice).

They really are that dark in color. The one with the grey wash body and actual grey head looks odd.

[cindy]

I can't remember do the parents have a black cheek patch and white body...if so it is normal for C CCFW to have lack head feathers...as they molt it comes in whaite...females may have a tiny touch of it remaining.

[cindy]

Also check out the section for CFW fledglings @ this site

http://www.efinch.com/species/cfwzeb.htm

"Fledglings: The chicks, unlike most dilute varieties, do not show any change in body or beak color. They are dark bodied with black beaks. They can be identified as soon as the white pin feathers of the wings start to show. Young females tend to carry more dark feathering on their heads than the males and can be identified early."

[finchlover1]

Could only do 3 pics so wanted to show the parents: The babies hatched over the 9/11 weekend. I banded them today and they flew all over the room. Caught them and now don't want to go back in the nest. They are flying, perching, but still crying for parents to feed them. Will they now that the babies are out of the nest?

[finchlover1]

male doesn NOT have black cheeks. 2 chicks look exactly like your pic. I just posted the parents. I've been on the site you gave me to look at but I am just too new to really understand what I'm looking for. They really are cute, though, aren't they. I went from two finches two hours ago to six. Amazing. I'm really have alot of fun but this particular breed of finch is new to me and what I expected didn't happen. I thought the babies automatically were white not with all the grey. Does all the grey on the head go lighter and the grey wash, will that lessen or go away and become white after the first molt?

[cindy]

Give them some time to molt....females may retain some dusting of gray or black flecks on their head and back. Males will have a faint breast ar when they fledge.

the link I sent you http://www.efinch.com/species/cfwzeb.htm

is an article on CFW's, it is very useful and even shows chicks.

[finchlover1]

Your explanation of determining sexing the babies, then I definately have 2 males and 2 females. Just noticed all 4 have teardrops, if that means anything. Ok, I re read and I have regular CWF male but female does not have teardrops. Is that considered a FF?

[cindy]

I am not 100% sure....she could be an Isabel. Can you post a close up of her?

[cindy]

in the article it states that the female CFW....

http://www.efinch.com/species/cfwzeb.htm

"Female: Like the males, the females will have a white body with dark tear marks under the eyes. The tail will also be a diluted gray. Females often have more black flecking on the top of the head than do males"

You female could e a white mutation...they do not have tears

http://www.efinch.com/species/whitzeb.htm

A FF fancy female or Isabel are mostly white/buff color, not right white like yours.

[finchlover1]

I so don't understand this color. It's like reading chinese. I just took a pic. It's mom, dad and one baby. I'm so lost. I'm wondering if it even matters except if you want to breed and have the right colors. If so, I need to learn somehow. Here is the pic:

[finchlover1]

I just found a website that sells finches. How she lists her CWF is as following:

CWF:

Chestnut
White
Flanked

She sells in 2's. Now I'm reallly confused but I though CWF was one color??

[cindy]

You need to read http://www.efinch.com/species/cfwzeb.htm

and http://www.zebrafinch.com/NewZebra/ches ... white.html

Also called Marked White or Chestnut Flanked White (CFW), these birds have white to ivory body color; The male has a breast bar, cheek patch and flanking, but generally diluted by comparison to normals. The females are white with black tear drop mark. Young often emerge white, frosted with lots of grey or black around the head and breast, and with black beaks. CFW is a sex-linked. This variety is variable from brightly colored birds to those that have pale color in the cheek patches, breast bar and flanking. Imported CFWs often have the best color we have seen with rich orange color in the cheek patches. They can also be among the largest of show zebras. The Continental CFW, a color form often bred in Europe usually has the richest black markings on the tail coverts that can be found in CFW . The photo above is of a Continental CFW, due tot he black tail coverts. However both standard and Continental CFWs are attractive. The females CFWs are often quite common in most collections of zebras, as a sex linked trait, females are more often seen in mixed collections than are males. They are the only white zebra with a black tear drop mark and subtle markings in the tail coverts. When the young fledge, they are easily recognized being mostly white, but with a gray head and tail, and a prominent black beak.
......................................................................................
whites: http://www.zebrafinch.com/NewZebra/WhiteZebra.html

The White Zebra was one of the earliest mutations to occur in captivity. Its exact place and origin is unknown. The White mutation is recessive. True Whites are devoid of all markings and the entire plumage is white. Whites retain the beak color, dark eye color, and orange pigmented legs. The beak color is the only reliable way in which to sex White Zebras. Males have a dark red beak, females retain an orange beak. (true whites do not have tear marks)

http://www.efinch.com/species/whitzeb.htm

Male: All white feathering. Legs and beak retain the orange/red coloring of the normal. Males can be determined by their bright red beaks and their song.

Female: All white feathering like the males. Females can be determined by their orange rather than red beaks. They also do not sing.

.................................................................................
True Whites and CFW are two different mutations. You have to read each article on CFW and Whites by both Roy Beckham and Garrie Landry.

[finchlover1]

" The females CFWs are often quite common in most collections of zebras, as a sex linked trait, females are more often seen in mixed collections than are males. They are the only white zebra with a black tear drop mark and subtle markings in the tail coverts. When the young fledge, they are easily recognized being mostly white, but with a gray head and tail, and a prominent black beak."


This above quote is my mom female WITHOUT the tear drop mark. What does that make her. I am getting more confused as I read.

So the lady selling the way I wrote it, what does that mean? If you put 3 colors together it's a CWF. But she's selling 3 separate colors???? I'm so confused that I may go to greys and just enjoy.

I'm one of those that has to know and learn. I'm not learning from lack of understanding of this color. I may be just beyond myself. You have all been great buy I'm going to wind up frustrating you all.

I think tomorrow I'm going for the greys. They are pretty and I have no trouble with them. I'm a genetics person when it comes to my birds but I am not getting this one. Saddens me because the parents are georgeous but the babies are, frankly, oldd. I like to have an idea. This was a shock.

[cindy]

The links I sent you explain it very well, what you appear to have is two different mutations a CFW male and White female. She has no tear, CFW females have tears according to the two leading experts.

The whites are sometimes mixed in, possily the woman assumes the white with no tear is a CFW. She could very well be split to CFW but is visually a white. Unless you know the females entire lineage it is hard to say, visually she is a white. Your male is a CFW...offspring will have the gene for CFW and White, two separate mutations.

[finchlover1]

OK. I'm getting this and now a little angry cause CWFs is what I wanted, period. I know my limitations and like to learn and know before going on to the next. If I have 1 and 1 and the babies "look 1/2 grey" then they are female CWFs. All 4 have teardrops. 2 are girls, 2 are boys and all 4 are CWFs. They all have the teardrops and the grey wash. Do I need to get a female CWF and a White male to be paired up right? If so, the female will be hard to sex since the markingings for the male CWF is easy. I'm conflicted. I don't know enough to do anyone justice here. Maybe I should stay very simple. I don't want to bread these two again. Took out the nest yesterday when the babies came out. They wouldn't go back in. When hen lays her eggs, I'll just take them out. I really don't want babies like this. It's not what I signed up for. I want to know what I'm doing. I did so much research. Guess I really didn't understand it all. I feel really bad about this. I want to than everyone that tried to help. I'm just a slow learner here and usually pick up real fast. Cindy, You short explanation I understood perfectly. Wonder what I should do? Go to a species not as complicated and wysiwyg or do nothing and keep the six I have but I am going to have a boy and girl cage. Don't want anymore breeding from these two.