CWF offspring

[finchlover1]

First, happy holidays to all. It's been awhile and since last on the boards my pair of CWFs have had two clutches.

Real simple: (no pics at this time but).... my CWFs are regular colored. Offspring all grey wash and teardrops under the eyes.

I have a male offspring that caught me off guard when he started singing because I thought he was a she.

He is all white (no breast or wing color). Has teardrops and the light colored bars on the tail otherwise white as a white. Does that mean that he is a CWF and my pair that offsprang this baby is split to white?

CWFs are very confusing to me and when I read about whites and CWFs and FF? I'm lost. I need a reply from someone who knows how to talk to a two year old. (Me). I need simple. CWFs are so pretty and that's how I got into this color. I love them but don't understand alot.

I've read everything you all have written and gone to the websites and read, read, read. Didn't read about this. Anyone want to take a crack at trying to explaining this to me? Thank you in advance!! Lyn

[bugaboo5]

Hi Lyn, congratulations on your two clutches. I'm attaching a website for you to review. Is this how your male looks (a male white zebra is picture).



Read and picture credit to: http://www.efinch.com/species/whitzeb.htm

If so, your CFW (Chestnut Flanked White) pair were able to produce a pure white chick. To make it simple, a CFW is considered a "marked" white, and White Zebra Finches are considered "unmarked" whites.

You asked how this is possible? How your CFW pair could create different mutations and colors? The answer is simple, really. Zebra Finches are very interesting species. With zebras, you can have multiple hidden genes. You know, how humans can have hidden (or recessive) genes for brown, blue, and green eyes? So you may have brown eyes, but because of the genes passed onto you by your parents, you may have genes in your DNA to produce green or blue eyes if you mate/breed with a green eyed or blue eyed man. This can go back generations and generations.

Basically, what I am trying to say is, your zebras probably have hidden genes. Most do. How they look visually (physically) may not necessarily be all that they are composed of. A gray zebra can still produce a white zebra if it has hidden genes. I hope this makes sense? Good luck.

[cindy]

A hidden gene or genes that one or both parents carry supressed the orange in the cheeks and flanks...possibly OB...leaving a tear and light tail bars.

reading the section on efinch under combinations
http://www.efinch.com/species/obzeb.htm

"The OB has also been combined with Chestnut Flanked Whites, Lightbacks and Dominant Silvers. These mutations tend to dilute the orange markings to varying degrees"

The breast bars being removed is interesting, there must be a split to white since white suppresses black.

Do you know anything about the backgrounds of the parents....pictures will help!This is a tricky one!!

Oh Vargur!!!!!

[finchlover1]

I don't have a pic right now. I've been on the efinch site for months as well as other great ones you all have suggested and helped me with.

Take the white pic you d/l and add teardrops and light brown bars on the tail. That's it. No patches on checks, no breast color, pure white.

I find very interesting the females as well. Every single one is a clone. I have 7, gone through one molt. Heads darker than body but all have grey wash.

The parents are georgeous but the babies are baffling to me. The white one is a keeper for me just because he really is beautiful. Promise a pic soon, ok. So he is a CWF period. Just is more white because the parents are split to whites. This is what I'm understanding? Is white a sex linked gene? You might wonder how is it she doesn't understand and yet can talk the lingo. I used to raise tiels and the genetics are a breeze. Loved breeding for color and temperament.

Moved and didn't have the room for them so went to finches. Can I tell you I am just thrilled with this new hobby. I looked in the nestbox (was going to rest my pair) but the babies were still using it. Now they are out and I have 5 more fertile eggs.

Do you all love this as much as I do? I couldn't see myself without my little family. Thank you for your help and I, again promise I will get a pic up soon.

Hope you all are having a beginning of a happy holiday season. Talk soon. Lyn

[cindy]

The fawn coloring on the tail and the tear drop...is that a fawn color also? If so from what I can figure is that they all may be female CFW/fawn, the father carries a fawn gene which will only show in females. The lack of cheek patches and breast bar may confirm they are all female.

The dark dusting of feathers are typical of CFW. I am pretty sure they will all be female CFW/Fawn (if so they don't carry the fawn genes).

If the tears are brown and the bars on the tails brown....if there were males the chest bars would be brown, they would have cheek patches and flanks.

[finchlover1]

Oh Cindy,

I seem to really have a mental block on the genetics of this species. The teardrops are black and the tails are lite brown. I looked up an image of a regular CWF coloring and that is the color of all the tails.

The difference between male and female is easy. During first molt the slight coloring on the chest and side is obvious but once it's not black and white, I'm so lost. I don't really know the difference between the "regular" light brown color on the tail and "fawn" color. I should just enjoy and maybe not be so interested in the genetic part. I love learning but I find this actually frustrating.

You have been helping me since the beginning and enjoy reading all the posts and time put in helping me out. Gotta get you a pic. Lyn

[cindy]

The CFWs, the BC CCFW and CCFWs are confusing. If you can post pictures it will help. My BCCCFW females all have that flecking of black on their heads.

[cindy]

Since the tears are black are the tail bars more like a buff color than brown? We need visual!!!!

[finchlover1]

Cindy,
You just posted "BCCCFW". No idea what that even means. How do you get a pic without birds freaking out and flighing all over the place. Just can't get a pic.

BTW, 5 out of 7 are males. Only 2 females make for the 7. So a pic is probably what you need and I am having trouble getting one. Lyn

[cindy]

BC CCFW mean Black Cheek Continental CFW is white with black cheeks, males have black chest bars.

[cindy]

on this site if you look at the picture where he is holding two birds(back are to use, you see the tail bar)

http://www.efinch.com/species/cfwzeb.htm

You most likely have CFW normals CFWs females, the tail bars are tan or light fawn.

this is a picture of a normal CFW
http://www.efinch.com/birdpix/regcfwfem2.jpg

[Vargur]

Maybe he is very light version of the cfw.
does he only have the tear and the tail bars?
no flanks, breast bars or cheeks?

maybe its a he-she,


Or he is still young and hasent molted yet into
his full adult plumage?


I once had bird like this, I thought it was a She
but one day it was a He

here is a picture



Vargs Fengur Frostason/Mjöll by Elma_Ben, on Flickr
Photo taken june 2.

and here is a picture when he is little bit older

Vargs Fengur Frostason/Mjallarson - our first CFW male chick by Elma_Ben, on Flickr
26 days later, finally molting into his adult feathers!

[finchlover1]

Cindy,
I'm gonna have to go slow here. I looked at the pics. You called it. Normal CWF and the 2nd pic shows the teardrops but can't see tail.

So I have normal CWFs.

_____________________________

Ok Cindy,
I need to reclarify my last post. The 5 "males" they are singing, HOWEVER the markings are confusing and 4 have the exact same markings:

teardrops, regular lite bars on tail, the brown coloring on the breast BUT NO CHEEK PATCHES on any of them. I'm confused now. They are males but the coloring I guess with this species of finches can be almost anything. Remember the 5th male is all white and only tail bars and teardrops.

Can I ask? Do finch owners care what CWF or whites or whatever colors they get with this species really care as far as anything, like, do you breed for color or song or temperament.....that kind of thing. Maybe I'm spending too much time trying to learn something that isn't important enough and the time can be used in learning something else. I'd love to hear opinions on this question. Lyn

[finchlover1]

Vargur,
Thank you for the pics. Gonna have to tell me how you did that. Beautiful pics. My babies looked like the first pic and have gone through a molt and look like the first pic but beek is fully orange now.

[finchlover1]

Here are pics:

First pic is for the color of the tailbars. The second pic is for the body color.

Teardrops and tailbars. Breast color but no flank color. 4 are that color.

The other is white, light tail bars and teardrops. No color on breast.

I don't know the difference between buff and fawn and light brown color. Hope the pic helps. I know not very good but I'll try again if you need more pics. Does this help?

Is fawn a sex linked color in the male?