How do you know ?

kiwi & mango · Post by **kiwi & mango** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:09 pm

Well we have a male that has red head, purple breasted and green back. The question is could one of his parents have been yellow back? we noticed that there are some lighter green like feathers on his back. Now mind you he finished his molt about 3 weeks to a month ago so he is still young. How do we know what any birds parents are unless we have them or know when they are bought.

Is there a way or a clue with the bird such as lighter feathers? head markings?

thanks

TammyS · Post by **TammyS** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:56 am

There is the possibility you could have a Dilute (Single Factor Yellow Back), the back color can vary quite a bit from a normal looking green to yellow. Look under the birds chin...if the feathers are gray instead of black, then you have a Dilute. If it is black, then it is a Normal Back.

kiwi & mango · Post by **kiwi & mango** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:07 am

Since his head is red I wasn't sure if I should check to look for black as you stated.

I had a look and under his chin is blue but really close to the line of were the red starts it looks sort of a green colour.

So what clue could that give me?

Our female who has the black face is totally black under her chin...no gray at all.

thanks

TammyS · Post by **TammyS** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:01 pm

Even though your Gouldian is a Red Head, he will still have the black ring around the mask and under the chin. If it is gray instead of black, then he is a dilute.

rottielover · Post by **rottielover** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:06 pm

I agree with Tammy.

Additionally, if you are able to go and see a male that is double factor for Green in person, you'll notice that the green back is much "richer"/darker/"more green" (not sure exactly how to describe)...

I have two Dilute males and their backs are a lighter, almost an olive like green color. I also have a double factor green back male, and his back is the richest green color I think I've ever seen (looks like dark green pine color almost). I also have a yellow back male, and the yellow is a muted type color, not quite as vibrant as the double factor green back color.

Anyway i think the best way to tell is to see them in person, then when you see other birds "with your own eyes" you'll easily be able to tell.

Of course the other method to find out would been to breed him and look at how the chicks come out, but that method requires far too much time ;)

kiwi & mango · Post by **kiwi & mango** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:05 pm

I have looked at our male a little different and in a new light and see that there is like a gray line around his mask not black. So what does this tell me again......

And what does the mean if he is breeding with females that are red head, purple breast and green back. He mask there is a black line very thin mind you but still there.

thanks

rottielover · Post by **rottielover** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:14 pm

Sounds like a dilute to me...

Since he's a red head and the females are red head's your most likely going to see red head offspring (same with purple breast).

Since the hen is green back and your male sounds like a dilute, you have a 1/4 chance for a yellow backed hen (Males have two "Z" genes, in your male one is Green Z and one is Yellow Z, Hen's have 1 Z gene and it's green)

Since offspring get 1/2 of their DNA from one parent and 1/2 from the other the break down is...

1/2 males and 1/2 females (statistically anyway ;) )

Of the males 1/2 of those will be double factor green back and have dark green backs. the other 1/2 will be dilute like dad

Of the females 1/2 will be green back and 1/2 will be yellow back.

So 1/4 chance for green back male, 1/4 chance of dilute male, 1/4 chance green hen, and 1/4 chance yellow hen

Hope that helps clarify it.

kiwi & mango · Post by **kiwi & mango** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:35 pm

and if the female was a black head with purple chest and green back would that mean I the odds are even higher getting babies with black face?

this is allll so difficult....

thanks

kiwi & mango · Post by **kiwi & mango** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:38 pm

sorry I meant to say if the females was black head it would be the same but the chance of the heads being black are higher and the back colours are the same as you indicated in your post.

is this right?

rottielover · Post by **rottielover** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:41 pm

Actually Black head is submissive to Red Head...

So your Red head male would have to be split and have 1 red head gene and 1 black head gene..

In that case with a black head female you'd have a 50% chance for a black head chick...

But if your male has two red head genes, then all babies are going to be red heads because it's dominante...

Gunnar · Post by **Gunnar** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:31 am

Not the best pictures but you can see the black bib on the normal RH PB male below

and the lighter diluted grey on the bib below on this RH PD Dilute

Hope this helps,
Gunnar

FeatherHarp · Post by **FeatherHarp** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:41 pm

Gunnar...what nice pics....your Gouldians are lovely...I hope to have a pair some day and possibly breed them...but after reading this thread and not understanding any of it...lol....I think I will just follow the "Que Sera Sera" method....(What Ever Will Be Will Be)...that way I will be headache free.

Gunnar · Post by **Gunnar** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:33 pm

Thanks, I use to pair them how I wanted to, I'll still do it occasionally to get a certain type or color. But for the most part I let them pick. I keep about 30 in a flight and when it looks like 2 pair up or start courting each other I'll try to move them to a breeding cage if there is room. Otherwise I just leave them in the flight.

kiwi & mango · Post by **kiwi & mango** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:08 am

Yes I wuold say my male is a dilute he is very similar to your picture but to tell you the truth what really through me for a loop was his tale is all blue....

he is so full of different colours it makes him looks so pretty (or should I say we think it makes him more attractive).

I hope the two do mate to see how it all works out but again we enjoy them so much and all the funny things birds do so babies or not they are great...