Zebra finch colours?

[Nova]

I have three little soon-to-be zebra finch fledglings, and would basically like a few second opinions on their colour.
To the best of my knowledge (certainly no expert and no one in RL to ask, so have gone off photos and descriptions) the sire is black cheek and the dam is lightback. I expected all chicks to be split for black cheek obviously, otherwise NG females and males split for lightback.

Howeverrrr, all three chicks look decidedly non-NB to me?! Granted I've only raised one successful litter before, so I don't have much to compare with, but those chicks were clearly darker in colour. These are sort of a champagne/silver colour with white underbellies.

Now I'm wondering if perhaps the sire is actually split for lightback too and thus I have gotten a litter of "true" lightbacks, or could it be something else? Maybe I've even gotten the patterns all wrong and we're not dealing with lightback at all?!

Here are photos of one of the chicks (all look the same, this one is possibly just a smidge lighter than the others, but not by much), taken today. In two of the photos, you can see a 3 days younger normal grey hatchling next to it, for comparison of colour...



It's not very visible in photos (poor light!) but the beaks are also not 100 % solid black, they have a slight, slight sort of purplish red shade to them, mainly near the base, if that helps.

The parents - pretty poor photos but best I could find right now:
Sire - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v383/ ... /08-11.jpg
Dam - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v383/ ... /06-13.jpg
She's the one to the right.

All opinions welcome

[cindy]

hi...you calculations are correct based on the visual look to the parents

BC male and lightback female

50.0% Females >> Gray / Black Cheeked
50.0% Males >> Gray / Black Cheeked , Light Back

LB is sex linked and only the father carries the gene, the female will give male offspring that are split to LB. My first thought in looking at the lighter offspring was that the father may also carry the LB gene.

Do you know the parents' genetic background? It is possible they may carry a hidden gene or two. As the chicks mature and molt out more may be revealed and their colors may show what could be hidden.

So adorable and congratulations...can you keep the thread going with updated pictures? Some of mine change and it is about a month before I see what mutations will actually show through.

[cindy]

Also as the young mature you can use this guide to look at physical traits/markers to identify possible splits.

http://zebracrazy.byethost13.com/Splits.htm

LB wil have some white in the feather edges on the wings....not to be confused with white wing edges (lower edge of the wing) for splits to pied...the LB splits involve the feathers within the wings.
http://zebracrazy.byethost13.com/SplitLBC.htm

[Nova]

Thanks for the quick reply!
Unfortunately, I don't know more about their background

Here are a couple more photos of the male, if it's any help:


His wings lol

There's a bit of whiteish there, but not sure if that's lacing? Several of my other birds have similar markings so I've assumed it's normal.

And sure, I'll keep you updated with photos =)
From the same session, one of the brothers/sisters of the one I showed in the first post.


Very excited to see what their final colour will be!

[cindy]

When I looked at the male BC I see another mutation at play, if you look at his flanking....a BC cheek typically has black with white spots but he also has chestnut with white spots as well.

The wing feathers seem to have a white edging to each feather. He is definately split to something besides being a BC. I assume it is LB and he may very well be another mutation.

The best way to try to figure this out is to watch for markers in the young.

Here is a picture of a BC/LB http://www.efinch.com/birdpix/lbbc.jpg

The chestnut and black flanking is very interesting!!!

[Nova]

Oooh that sounds very interesting!
I've been staring long and hard at him yesterday and today... I've always assumed his black/chestnut mix flanking was just poor pigment lol but if it's a potential sign of another mutation that's very neat! I will definitely keep a very close watch on his offspring and see how they develop. And perhaps cross him with another female far down the line to see what we can get out of him/what he might be split for. Do you have any idea what type of mutation could cause something like the chestnut in his flanking?

[cindy]

I am going to look at his pictures a bit more..the site I sent you on ID'ing splits might lend so clue....I would watch the offspring like you said...they may hold the key. Once they color out and they show their markings you may get a better idea what to pair him with.

I am going to take the link for this thread and email to Elma (Vargur) and see if she can help ID the male she is very good with mutations.

[Vargur]

What is the mom in color?
The chicks look like (one) normal grey and two lb.
Tear mark that is like this in shape ( indicates that
the bird is split to black cheek.
and also if the tear mark is thicker than usual.


Máni by Elma_Ben, on Flickr
Lightback split CCFW and BC male


Vargs - Til sölu by Elma_Ben, on Flickr
normal grey males, two of them are split BC.
can you see them?



your male is BC and possible split LB. (lightback)
some bc males do not have perfect black flanks.

[kheather]

very pretty zebras! that was the first thing I noticed also the mixed flank colors!

[Nova]

What is the mom in color?
The chicks look like (one) normal grey and two lb.
Tear mark that is like this in shape ( indicates that
the bird is split to black cheek.
and also if the tear mark is thicker than usual.

You can see her in the first post, she's a lightback: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v383/ ... /06-13.jpg (the one to the right)
And yes, they are definitely BC carriers as the sire is BC
The grey one is not actually part of this litter, it's from a 3 days younger litter. All three in this litter are this lighter colour.

If it's any help, one of the chicks in the younger litter also looks like this... Minus the BC factor. That one has a grey mother and the father... not entirely sure? I know he is split to CFW because he has produced it before, but since his chick looks almost identical to these ones I think he might be Lightback split to CFW then, having produced a potential LB this time. He looks very similar to the bird you posted, just a bit darker (and minus the BC factor of course).

All three fledged yesterday and are now flying around with the others When seen next to their mother, they look very, very similar to her in shade. Of course, that can change with age, we'll see eh... I'll get new photos of them in a day or two.

can you see them?

My guess is left and middle ones

[Vargur]

Sorry I didnt see that she is LB.

You are right
its the one to the left and the one in the middle

The one to the right is their brother, but he does not show
any sign of being split to bc.
If a male bird is split to black cheek
then the tear will be thicker (I know I said it before)
and there is also black in his flanks.


Vargs Þorri og Vargs ónefndur by Elma_Ben, on Flickr
you can see it in this picture.
the bird to the left.
the bird is also split LB.

your male looks like he is also split lb?
or he is lb, maybe the lighting on the pic that makes him look lighter than he is?
but he seems much lighter than normal gray males.
Also his tummy is pure white.
not creamish white color.

[Nova]

May well be the case - or even likely be the case - since his offspring appear to be LB, that he's a carrier or even one himself... The idea had struck me before, but I wasn't sure since when you look at birds labeled "just" black cheek they sometimes have a similar look - maybe those birds are also splits but not described as such, or the photos are of poor quality... Here are a few more photos of him:
http://finkar.lokatt.se/images/img02.jpg
http://finkar.lokatt.se/images/bild1.jpg
http://finkar.lokatt.se/images/bild9.jpg - Next to his mate, mother of this litter

[Nova]

As promised, a few new photos - if poor ones!
The younger LB, from the second litter, may be in a few of these. I can't tell easily in photos where their leg bands aren't visible.

I'm far from certain, but I think that in the older trio, there are two males and one female. Two of them have just the slightest hint of orange on their cheeks and of a black band on their throat...

[cindy]

Top picture top left is a boy...they look great!

[DanteD716]

They are very pretty chicks!