FINCHforum

I picked up two zebras today, a fawn hen and a cock of a colour that I have never seen before here (Sweden). Going by eFinch, the closest I can see would be Dominant Silver, although that page states that all parts of the bird will be diluted. My boy looks like a normal grey, only that his cheek spots and flank bands appear light greyish - when photographed with a flash, they look slightly cream, in RL they appear light grey unless inspected close up. They are lighter coloured than even my CFW/LB split male's, yet his body colour is as dark as that of any normal Grey. Is he a "poor" Dominant Silver, or another pattern all together?

Unfortunately the Bird Guy of the store where I got him was not there today, all I know about his background is that he's "young" (still moulting, it appears, his throat markings are incomplete) and that he's from a private breeder.

A few photos... Not the best ones but hopefully clear enough to show his colour. NB he had taken a bath a bit before - his feathers are still just slightly damp here.


Belly


Upper body


Cheek spots

If anyone can help, I'd really appreciate it. Whatever he is, he's a cutie

Perhaps Fawn / Lightback

http://zebrafinch.info/colours/?language=en

click on Fawn and Lightback. A bird will appear.

I think i would say just a young normal grey male split to ob. But if he was that young, i would think he would have black on his beak still..
I don't know if finches have single factor and double factor dominant silver but i am going to do a bit of research before i tell you anything major. he does look to be diluted in the flanks for sure and obviously the cheeks. the breast bars could be somewhat diluted in areas making it look like they are still coming in as well.

Thanks for the suggestions so far!
Lightback - He's dark and has a yellow belly, so he's not LB (compare with the black cheek in the first photo next to him - that bird is LB).
Fawn - His cheek stripe is black, not brown - in the second photo you can see a fawn in the background for comparison.
OB - Orange Breasted, right? I have never seen that mutation in my country, so I'm very unfamiliar with it, it would certainly be neat if true! Although according to eFinch, split OBs are recognized by having orange lacing and/or colour around their breast, which my boy doesn't have. He looks like a normal grey only with all his red areas diluted to pale cream (appearing light grey in RL - the colour is less obvious in RL without the aid of a camera flash. The shop owner thought he was a female and I had to explain several times which MALE I wanted lol). As I mentioned, the closest I've found is dominant silver which shows the same style of dilution, but should be all over the bird, not just on the red areas...

Not entirely sure what you mean with Single and Double factor Silver, can you explain a little more closely please? Are you talking about being heterozygous vs homozygous, or something else?

[quote=http://www.gencalc.com/html/mut_eng.html] mutated gene can partially overrule the second from the pair, so the presence of only one mutated gene is sufficient for the mutation to express. However, it will not express in the full way, for that both mutation genes are necessary. Than the bird is called double factored(df). If only one mutation gene is present is called single factored(sf) and the bird looks somewhere between the mutant and normal appearance.[/quote]
This is what i mean, i hope it helps!
I'm not familiar with a lot of dominant mutations, i am actually new to them. so i am not sure about zebra finches with dominant mutations..
I really hope Cindy gets on soon...I am having trouble with your bird and another!

I don't think he is silver at all.
possibly SIM?? hasn't gotten his cheek patches yet? but i don't know what to say about the dilution

The cheek patch is enlarged, hardly any breasted bar or throat bars....I am going to forward the link to a friend and ask his opinion.

Honestly, looking into it a tiny bit more, i think this may be some form of OB split mixed with something. to me it looks almost like a selective diluted OB (causing the 'lack' of breast bars, but rather LIGHT orange) split.
i don't know what to say about the cheek patches or black marks..

Ok...I heard back from my friend who showed it to someone that is very knowledgeable in regards to mutations. He said it is a normal gray hen with fault marking....she has what are called ghost fllanks and cheeks. It is not a male.

cindy wrote:Ok...I heard back from my friend who showed it to someone that is very knowledgeable in regards to mutations. He said it is a normal gray hen with fault marking....she has what are called ghost fllanks and cheeks. It is not a male.

Very cool! I have been staying out of this topic because I had no idea of what mutation

When in doubt I refer to the ones that are more have more expertise and show.

That is AMAZING
i have heard of ghost flanking and cheek patches, but never chest bars! The beak is red as well, i would never have thought that it may be female..

Same here - I had heard of ghost markings in females but expected at most you'd usually see faint cheek spots and perhaps flank bars, but I didn't realize they could include all typical male markings even down to colouring the beak red. Interesting to know! And thank you for helping me find out his her colour - good thing I hadn't decided on names yet!

cindy wrote:Ok...I heard back from my friend who showed it to someone that is very knowledgeable in regards to mutations. He said it is a normal gray hen with fault marking....she has what are called ghost fllanks and cheeks. It is not a male.

As cool as it sounds I still have to say ...... No it is a male he's bin singing and hanging out with a normal hen ( looks like they hit it off) but I have seen him singing to her ..Maybe I'll try and get a video if I can or some more pics ...

After observing her for a bit, I have to ask, is anyone familiar with just how "male like" these females can be? Because I just watched her(?) sing for another female... I heard the song from another room before I saw it, did not recognize it as belonging to another of my males but thought it could possibly be the male I kept from a recent litter, but I'm almost positive it came from her, I sat and watched them from a bit of a distance and after a while she began running around another female on the bottom of the cage and sang for her.
My video camera appears to be broken, but I'll see if I can get a photo or maybe film it with my phone, if it happens again.

EDIT - Sorry for the terrible quality and darkness of the video (had to use my cell phone) but here's a short clip of her singing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiyauR9gS9o
She is sitting on a small branch, above a wooden swing, you can make out her shape just below/bottom rright corner of the ledge with the water holder in the far back. No other bird sings during the clip.

A lot is IDing is done by visual and can be difficult without knowing the background or seeing the bird in action.


A lot of the times even trying to I'D a fledgling is a guessing game that often goes on and on and in some cases best to wait until the bird is matured.

It was hard to see anything but the song is that of a male. Your best bet it to pair the bird and see what offspring it gives . It also may give a better clue as to what genes the bird carries. Pair it with a bird that you know the background or mutation of.