ok question on blue gouldians *Powder and dilute *

[Fancie Flight]

I have a male blue witha salmon colored head, Hes actually called a
Black headed, powder blue the breeder says,

I was looking online and it seems that powder and dilute are the SAME thing??? is this true???

However it also said these could NOT BE PURPLE breasted and well Mine is,

So what is he???? I really want to get his info straight before breeding him, lol

[L in Ontario]

Can you post a pic of him? I haven't heard of "powder blue" Gouldians and would love to see him! I thought salmon heads = either red or orange for blue and or silver backed Gouldians.

I have a black-headed, white-breasted, blue-back male Gouldian and will be picking up a blue-back female later this afternoon. I don't know her head or breast colours yet.

Would love to see your powder blue.

[L in Ontario]

There is a paragraph on Dilute Blue on the Ladygouldianfinch website and a photo of one - very nice.

[Ravyn]

I too thought salmon-head was for red-headed gouldians only. Blue gouldians show up blue because they are missing the 'red' component to the gene. Red and blue make green, so take away the red and you get blue back gouldians. And because you take away the red, the red-headed and orange headed goulds come out with salmon or white heads. Black-faced gouldians will still have black heads because the gene for black is still present.

At least, this is to my understanding of how it works.

[rottielover]

First, here's a link to (what I think is the best) website on Gouldian genetics:

http://www.finchinfo.com/genetics/lady_ ... /index.php

Here is what the site has to say about blue body color and how it affects head and other feather's colors:

"This body color can occur in combination with any head or breast color, however, because the blue gene suppresses the expression of red and yellow, any bird with a genetically red or yellow head will appear to have a salmon colored head, and the normally yellow belly will appear off-white. "

If he has a salmon colored head, he cannot be a black headed bird.

Here is what the site has to say about Pastel color'd birds (AKA "powder blue")

"Pastel is the phenomenon of combining a 'yellow' Z (sex-linked) chromosome with a 'green' Z (sex-linked) chromosome and double-factor blue genes in a purple-breasted bird. (Obviously since two Z chromosomes are required for this to occur, pastel birds can only be cocks.) Hens can never be pastel. Pastels can be thought of as "blue dilutes." Pastel will never occur in a white breasted cock (instead the bird who is SFYB and DF blue body will appear silver as explained below), but pastel birds can be split for white breasted. Because the yellow gene suppresses the expression of black coloration and because the green gene mutes the effects of the yellow gene, any normally black area on the bird will appear grey (as opposed to white), so black headed birds will have grey heads. Also because the blue genes suppress the expression of red and yellow, any areas of the bird which would normally be red or yellow (such as the head or yellow belly of the bird) appear salmon or off-white, respectively, in color. "


SO to summarize...

If you have a bird that is "powder blue" black, with salmon head, then he's genetically either a red or yellow (orange) headed bird.

I don't see anything that says he cannot be purple breasted, quite the opposite.

Pastel or Powerder blue, can only occur in male birds because it requires two seperate copies of the Z sex chromosome, and only males have 2 copies of that chromosome, females are ZW and males are ZZ.

I think if you read this site that I linked you above you'll get it.

If not, post back and I'll try to explain in more detail.

[rottielover]

@ Ravyn

Close, but Yellow and Blue = Green.

You see, in a "normal" green backed bird, the bird is producing both yellow and blue pigments. When combined yellow and blue make green.

If the bird has a blue back the genes that normally produce the yellow pigment are surpressed. If the bird is a yellow back, the blue pigment production is surpressed.

It's easiest to think of it this way: There are genes that control the pigments for the back feather colors. Seperate genes that control the Head colors and still a seperate gene that controls the breast colors. That statement is a bit oversimplified, but it helps that start out thinking that way.

[Ravyn]

*thumps her forehead*

Dude, I knew that. I did. I was thinking 'yellow and blue' and writing 'red and blue'.

I'm such a dork.

[rottielover]

No problem, just worried that someone reading and not posting might get confused.

[Fancie Flight]

I totally get the NORMAL colored goulds the blues yellows are new to me so UGGHH ok so Powder and bilute are the SAME????


Ive been studying horse genetics for ever and still dont have that down pat, sorry folks dont expect me to get all this over night, lol
Ill try posting a photo of him later,
he could be gray but looks more salmon to me and breeder said black headed powder.

ok scurries off to read and get bigger head ache

[rottielover]

Current question: Are dilute and "powder blue" the same thing?

"Powder Blue" isn't a standard term, so my best guess right now is that Yes, what the breeder is calling "powder blue" is actually a dilute blue back bird, Also known as "Pastel".

If you have time get a picture posted up and I'll take a look.

[Fancie Flight]

I took some pics but now they wont load on my pewter Ill try tomorrow, Sure hatin this new camera. lol I like simple hubby had to by me the fancy one ugghhh

ok maybe she said pastel And I got powder outta that, lol so Now I gotta understand the dif between normal blue back and pastel .

Ill keep tryin to post my pics, THANKS for all the help

[rottielover]

Diff between Blue back and Pastel:

It's the same differance between a green back male and a dilute back male actually, you just add the blue gene's into the mix....


In a normal green back male bird, there are two "green" Z chromosomes. In a dilute back bird there is 1 green Z and 1 yellow Z.

The "blue" genes in the birds only really supress the production of the yellow pigment (leaving only the blue pigment produced).

So if you have a male bird with two green Z's and blue genes, then he'll be a blue back bird. If you have a bird with 1 green z and one yellow z and the blue genes, then he'll be a Pastel.

Hope that clears things up.

[Fancie Flight]

ok after rechecking that site AGIN I guess dilute and Pastel are NOT the same,

according to that unless I am being stupid to be dilute my guiy would look more green than he does,
He is Blue backed not at all green so that shoves me ove rto Pastel, But I may be color bling but i say hes a tinge of red more than gray, lol. but the breeder would know and I questioned her again she said Black headed pastel,
so I guess. lol
ok well gonna go try doing pics AGAIN<

Current question: Are dilute and "powder blue" the same thing?

"Powder Blue" isn't a standard term, so my best guess right now is that Yes, what the breeder is calling "powder blue" is actually a dilute blue back bird, Also known as "Pastel".

If you have time get a picture posted up and I'll take a look.

[Fancie Flight]

ok OBVIOUSLY I am not sur ehow to make this work, But if ya go look at the gallery scroll down to last uploads it will show 4 pics of my goulds, My female blue and then youll see the pastel, He looks even redder on the camera sorry new camera. lol

[Fancie Flight]

I give up on the pics sorry