My Pieds had babies and I don't know what they are??????????

[love4finches]

I have a pair of pieds. The dad has one teardrop and a speck of a check patch under the eye. The mom has one teardrop as well.

The 3 babies all look exactly alike. No teardrops at all and no sign of a check patch. What are they? Are they a better pied or are they suppose to have teardrops and checkpatches (male)? Not sure what I have. If it weren't for the dark tail bars they almost look like Penguins, I think. The other side of this baby is exact same coloring. What do I have?

[cindy]

They appear to be pied....saddlebacks. penguin is a mutation all it's own. You paired pied to pied and asvyou add more pied to the gene pool you get saddleback. If you bred the offspring to another pied you will see less color more white on young

[love4finches]

I'm really confused about this. I thought pied to pied gave you all pieds, period. Is saddleback a different variety and does that mean that both parents are splits?

What do you breed a saddleback with? Are they only different from Penguins because of the color of the tail bars?

A brand new variety of finch for me. They are really saddlebacks????? Can't believe it. I picked up a pair of greys and I got BC and BC CFWs.

This is amazing. How do you learn all this. I've read and read but still there is so much to varieties to finches.

[love4finches]

Wanted to add this pic cause I saw pics of saddlebacks and mine have color on the head and a patch on one side by the wing (only one baby). Is that a fault?

[cindy]

Saddle back is just a pattern pied breeding leaves at a certain point. If you take a saddleback and breed it to another pied more color or markings will be removed.

this is an explaination on efinch pertaining to pieds for zebras, it explains the saddleback effect .... "With repeated Pied x Pied matings, the amount of white increases. This can increase to the point that the last area of normal coloring is the back. These are often referred to as Saddleback Pieds. The amount of white can increase to the point that all the feathers are white"

http://www.efinch.com/species/piedzeb.htm Pied is like an eraser, saddleback is an effect of pied not a mutation.


the second group of pictures you posted shows more color remaining on the heads and neck (not quiet saddlebacks,),it just means that the pied has not removed the color in those areas in these birds but if you breed these to another pied you would see more color removed in the next generation until you see saddleback then all white in the following generations if you continue to breed pied to pieds in this line.

Penguins is it's own mutation, in the zebra finch line not part of the pied pattern. You can't create penguin from pied...pied actually ruins the penguin mutation if you breed pied to penguin.

[love4finches]

Cindy,
A great big THANK YOU for that explanation. I go on efinch alot but somethings I just don't get. This was one of them. I've been doing alot of reading and alot of breeders aren't too gun ho on breeding pieds. It could/ruin a line? Why?

What "hyathentically" would you do with the pieds and saddlebacks. I have a grey pair throwing off BC and BC CFWs! I have Penguins and societies I don't even want to even get into right now.

I have a second pair of pieds and so strange that all 4 were gotten from 4 different places all over 4 different states and the second pair hasn't bred yet but I swear they are an identical pair to what just bred. Wonder if being such a small hobbiest I should just take a breathe and minimize my breeding stock to just the grey pair, the penguins (although have to admit not as pretty to me as pieds). Is it me? Penguins can only be bred with their own? I don't know the standards and I have read buy for me I'm blocked with pieds and penguns.

Your explanation of pieds x pieds I understand the explanation but for me the logic is if you breed the two you get the babies pied with more of the grey. My pied parents have an orange band across the chest. What is that?

I love you explanations. I sometimes really need to be talked to like a 2 year old when I don't get something. Your explanation of the eraser was perfect. Loved it and got it. Logically doesn't make sense to me buy will follow your explanation and hope I can get suggestions. I can't keep every new variety I keep do to size of bird room. If you had what I have (my signature lists) what would you keep or get to breed into what I have. I don't want to breed pieds to upset my stock (which is really beautiful) if pieds ruin them.

[cindy]

The orange band across the chest indicates orange breast. The pied is removing the orange in the offspring. Pied to pied through the genrations will eventually take time to get saddleback effect and all white. You can do one of two things with your pied you can continue to breed the pied offspring to other pieds to create the white pieds in the future.

or

If you do not want pied to show as much breed the pieds to normals or full BC or other mutations and keep breeding the offspring of future generations to non pied birds to breed the pied down. You need to find non pieds from a breeder that does not have it in their stock. Problem is some what appear to be full mutations may carry pied but not show any signs of it. Pet store birds are not always pure mutations and often splits to recessive mutations.

Pied ruins the penguin mutation by removing the orange in the checks of male offspring. I raise penguins and to me it ruins the look of penguins so I avoid it in my stock.

[love4finches]

Cindy,
Sent a PM. I am really shocked that so many stay away from pieds. Growing up they were my favorite ones to breed and had nothing else.

I have 3 pair of Penguins and have to learn the standards not to ruin the beauties I have. See, for me, I think pieds are prettier than Penguins.

I also read that Penguins are harder to breed. They need more quiet and lay smaller clutches.

[Zebrafincher]

What sweet little birds! I know nothing about Genetics for finches, save the incredible variety they come in! Fantastic!!!