Creamino Gene and other Genes

[birdeatcat]

Hi there I was wondering about the Creamino gene, is it a lethal gene like the silver gouldian finch?

I had two creamino society finches and they both recently passed away, and they were also crested, which that I know is not a lethal gene.

I was wondering if the Creamino Java sparrow also is a lethal gene. I found one at a petstore but I am skeptical of buying it.

[wellingtoncdm]

I think when they discuss lethal gene it's referring to in the egg.
Crested to crested can cause some lethal genes in eggs that don't hatch. I've not heard of a lethal gene that kills silver gouldians.
Cream colored Javas are visual fawn and silver and very different from creamino in societies.

[30 Seconds to Bob]

Are you sure that the java isn't a fawn, opal, or isabel variation? That might resemble what some might call "creamino". Those colors in javas are not lethal to my knowledge. Charlie or Cindy will know more for sure. Bob

[cindy]

There is a Cream mutation in Java, no creamino.

It is recommended not to breed red eyed birds to red eyed birds. It is said that the young tend to be smaller and weaker. If you have a red eyed bird and want to breed it...it is best breed a split to a red eyed bird...example fawn (red eyed) to a normal or a silver split to fawn.

Some of the mutations we have here n the states are silver, fawn and opal Isabel (silver fawn), Black-eyed white (normal white pied), Red eyed white (fawn white pied), pied and normal

http://www.sjdjavas.co.uk/colours.htm all mutations are listed on this site.

Birdeatcat where are you located and can you get a picture of the bird?

[30 Seconds to Bob]

Cindy, I love the cream/pastel fawn mutation. Why don't you work on producing those in your spare time? Bob

[cindy]

I believe we do not have pastel in the states. Right now I am working on opal isabels.

[birdeatcat]

ah she was an albino (red eyed), but her brother passed away just before she did, he was part albino.

by the way the java had red eyes too. should I be concerned about this, is their a short life span of the albino gene?

[debbie276]

is it a lethal gene like the silver gouldian finch?

There are no lethal genes in the Pastel Blue gouldians

[wellingtoncdm]

Red eyed solid white Javas are actually heavy pied fawn birds showing no fawn color. Although they appear albino they really are not.

[Colt]

In my experience/opinion when referring to a lethal gene I am speaking about a gene/trait that prevents a the offspring from a particular breeding from being born/hatched like the crested gene in ducks and finches or black coloration in fancy guppies that prevents fully black fish from being developed.

Other genes/traits can produce organisms that are less fit/thrifty than their more fit counterparts like true albinos in many species (gouldians and most species of fish). Other species or breeds are weaker due to smaller gene pools and the wish to preserve the breed/color without out-crossing like White Java chickens, Gouldians with a lot of blue, etc.

It is unclear in this thread which of these the original poster is asking about although I would think it is the latter. Could someone clear the muddy waters for the rest of us reading the thread to further or own understanding of the subject?

[birdeatcat]

colt

I was wondering if Creamino was a deadly gene, I heard that a Silver gouldians is a bad gene because they don't live as long as say a regular gouldian. Hence I was mixing the idea's with gouldians and societies, because my two creamino's that were societies which was albino and half albino just passed away, and they didn't live as long as I expected them to.

and I was wondering about the cream Java, it seems my questions have been answered about the bad gene thing, these two societes were cambodian and king crested, that is what I was asking, what may have killed my beautiful creamino's. I am a clean bird keepers and their deaths are a serious mystery to me.

[cindy]

ah she was an albino (red eyed), but her brother passed away just before she did, he was part albino.

by the way the java had red eyes too. should I be concerned about this, is their a short life span of the albino gene?

Birdeatcat Can you tell us you location...is there a way to get a picture of the bird, it will clarify what it is.

There is no albino in javas...please refer back to this site for all the mutations. http://www.sjdjavas.co.uk/colours.htm

The white red eyed is not albino as Charlie stated. It is a fawn and a pied mutation, the all whites are from generations of adding white to the pairings to get a fawn white bird. Same with the black eyed it is a normal and pied pairing with more pied added through the generations to make an all white bird.

these are black eyed whites or normal white pied

Silver java

fawn java

9-2 fawn java male.jpg (36.74 KiB) Viewed 2122 times

[30 Seconds to Bob]

At least in regards to canaries, a "potentially fatal gene" always meant that if you bred two birds dominantly carrying this gene together, there is a high mortality rate among chicks - usually accompanied by deformities. Example: If you bred two crested birds with each other. Bob

[NorwichFinchman]

I can tell you that Java Sparrows have no Lethel Genes what so ever.
The Cream Java is from a combination of two mutations in Pastels & Fawns.
Other similar mutations:
White: Black-eyed
Silver: Known world wide as the Opal.
Fawn: Two types Red-Brown and Beige Brown.
Pastel: Pale colouration of Normal but no visual cream.
Agate: Known world wide as the Cherry Blossom and in Europe is known as Topas.
Opal Isabel: is a combination of two mutations Silver & Fawn.
All the above are Recessive apart from the Pastel which is sex-linked.
Cream Java are very nice and sell for around £30 GBP in the UK for a pair. You will have no problem from these birds. I have at present 20 pairs of Cream Javas of which I am taking 11 pairs to the Newark Sale in a couple of weeks. The other nine pairs I am breeding with.
Regards
Steve
http://birdkeeper.synthasite.com/

[Martie]

Just to keep things organized, I've moved this topic from the Species Forum to the Genetics Forum where it seems to fit a little better.