My Little White Baby....

[lnlovesorange]

MiaCarter Oh Mia i love you, and your posts, and your site, it's been so helpful to me!!! So my question is my first baby, EB, or Earl, (when I see him/her, i'll know better) is prbably going to fledge in the next couple days, and as you know I've been DYING to take them out for a snuggle!!! Can I try tonight? (he's 15 days old today) and if i do should I take out just the 2 oldest with the most feathers, or should I try all of them? Also, should i put them into my brooder, also should i pull them out and let the parent out so that they can come and check on them (while i'm holding snuggling, possibly feedin ) also, i bought tonic seed as a converter/weaning food. What is your experience with this? I only got a sample, so i'm wondering if I should buy more (i have PLENTY of sprouted seed and eggfood and millet) But also i read that sprouted millet is really good. Just wondering your thoughts, I'd really like my new babies to be more comfortable with me then my current parents (believe me, they've come a long way, but like you said it's work, and i didn't want to mess with them while they were taking care of babies, so i haven't worked with them much, just here and there I've fed them and made them eat out of my hand (usually lettuce, as me holding it makes it easier for them to rip pieces off!!!) So any info you can give me on weaning food and helping to make my babies more tame would be great (don't get me wrong i'm happy with my birds, but it would be nice to not have to go through the hours at a time holding my hand still in the cage with 4 babies ya know? lol Thanks Mia, as always....you are so helpful!!!

[MiaCarter]

lnlovesorange - Sure, you could try handling them if you're really compelled.

As I mentioned, there is a danger of the parents abandoning any time you mess with the nest, but I know you've been working with them and they've been tolerant of photos and that sort of thing, so I'd say your chances are good of them accepting intervention without problem.

I'll caution you that it's going to be VERY difficult to get the babies out of that nest. (If I recall properly, you've got them in a hooded bamboo nest, right?)
They're more conscious and aware at this age and when they're off balance, they tend to put their wings and legs out. So it can be tricky getting them out of the nest --- a bit like the opposite of trying to get an uncooperative cat into a cat carrier to go to the vet. They spread their legs out and make it impossible to put them in the box! (The trick is to wrap them in a blanket, by the way. Wrap them in a fleece blanket, pop 'em in the cat carrier and then pull out the blanket or just leave it. )

The baby birds do the same. They put those legs and wings out and it's near impossible to get them out of what seems like a tiny little nest entrance!

The best way to do it is to get them to sit inside a large spoon. I have a wooden one. Maybe for salads? It's just the right size for babies this size and it fits in the nest door.
You unhook the nest, put the spoon beside the baby you want, tip the nest slightly so he rolls into the spoon. Then wait a second for him to right himself and settle in the spoon. Then pull him out.
It sounds easy, but it's harder in practice. The more babies you have, the tougher it becomes to get the right bird into the spoon.

I'm dreading it as tonight, I need to band them and it's going to be a mess getting them out! All those little fragile limbs sticking out every which way!

So you can give it a go, but it's a challenge with this nest style. This is where nestboxes are much easier!
You might just wait a couple days until they fledge. They tend to fledge before day 20. I've had them fledge at day 17.

Once their eyes are fully open and they're feathered up, they start getting fearful, more with each day. Though it's not too bad by the time they fledge. (Especially zebras, who fledge around day 17-20.)
That fear initially manifests as backing up. Inside the nest, they'll back their bums up against the rear wall. But they'll usually let you hold them without trouble.

So for the first couple days, I'll just sit with them and cuddle while reading or going online. I try not to actively handle them, pet them, etc. as it's scary and they don't know what to expect. I'll wear a sports bra and I'll just tuck them into my chest. Sounds silly, I know, but it's a cozy, safe spot. They can feel my heartbeat, which has a comforting effect, and it's warm and they can get used to my scent.

Some of the braver babies will peek out after an hour or so. (The sports bra I prefer isn't a super tight one that covers your entire chest - they'd get stuck in there! Hard to describe, but it's more like a strip of fabric that goes around your chest and it's a little open on the top so there's a bit of cleavage showing. So they can pop in and out as they please. Those tank tops with a built-in shelf bra work perfectly too! I use those as well.)

That's when I'll start handling them - when they feel comfortable enough to start exploring a bit.
Some are more shy. For them, I'll give them a couple days of hanging out under my shirt just so they can get used to me. Then I'll start gently petting them and offering treats like millet or bits of cucumber.

I try to start each session by putting them in my shirt. They hang out for a few and then come out to explore.
Try to establish a routine so they know what to expect. That's key. Animals like to know what to expect.

I try to only work with 1 or 2 at a time. (I also make it a point to minimize the time when I've got all of the babies out of the nest, as that's extra stressful for the parents. So I'll do brief outings, like a nest check or banding operation, where I remove all of them, but it's a short time and I return each baby after they're done.)

I generally focus my attention on the friendlier, more naturally curious birds who actually seem to enjoy the interactions.

[lnlovesorange]

So. .... this is E.B or Earl.... I can't believe in Gunna say this but i don't tthink he's scared of me, I've fed him a few times through the little back hole in the nest , and i touched him today! He didn't back up or anything, just pushed his mouth which i was afraid to give him to much food as i can't see his crop. But he was totally cool as you can see he even posed for this picture! But you were right about getting them out, all his much smaller siblings are lined in the front of the nest and he's huddled out in the back! My parents flew around me a little more cuz i was messing with the nest more than usual, but they just went in and checked on the babies. Oh and lovezebs here is the pic wondering if these feathers who stay white. ... the body looks pink too . ? What do you guys think?

[MiaCarter]

lnlovesorange - Sounds like EB is still pretty tame! That's great!

That's definitely a CFW baby with the white.
That baby will stay white.
That means your dad is split to CFW.

My guys are 11-13 days old. I took them out to band them today and the two youngest weren't frightened at all. But I could feel the oldest one was nervous (you can feel their heart race and they even tremble a little bit.)

[lnlovesorange]

Ok, so I took a picture for MiaCarter & lovezebs to ask them if my chick would stay white, because I was curious (for those of you that don't know, my Hen is CFW, my Cock is NG, but I thought he might be split to something, because of a couple of things I saw in his coloring. So I posted the picture, (sorry I forgot to copy the link to the post, but i believe it's under breeding, or "new to the hobby" and the name of the post is Hand Rearing Zebra Finches
(try this: http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php ... 20#p362420)
Anyhow, I looked in today, and he has even MORE feathers than that photo, BUT they don't look pure white.... very strange... they almost look (i don't wanna say fawn, but Fawn!!! lol) they look off-white, I will try to put up pictures, so you guys can see for yourselves. But if anyone wants to take a look at my Melvin and see what you think? I'm still very new to the finch world, and was wondering what (if anything) this could be if that little babe is not white, but like an offwhite? Thanks all, (not gunna lie though, the not knowing is kinda fun too!!!)

[lnlovesorange]

MiaCarter I meant to tell you that I fed almost all the babies last night. There are 4 DEFFINITELY. Three of them took from me with no problem, but the 4th did not, and he/she has done this before, so like you always say, I will work with the ones that don't seem to mind, and I will leave him/her alone. If he doesn't like to be fed by me, or touched, I will simply work on just making him Less frightened rather than ACTUALLY tame. I tell you what? He must have been chatting with Melvin, cuz he still doesn't fully trust me, but the others must be Charlotte's cuz she will get in my hand if she wants something bad enough!!! HAHA

[Sally]

I've split off these posts, but I'm wondering now if you would prefer that this topic be moved to the 'Breeding' forum, since it is mostly about hand feeding? Let me know, I can take care of it.

[MiaCarter]

Hmm... that's curious!
I wonder if you've actually got a lightback or fawn gene in there somewhere?
I guess you'll be surprised!

My CFW male, Squeepers actually has an off-white color. It's not really apparent until you see him beside one of the girls who are white-er.
So it could just be that.

It can be hard to judge the feather color before they're fully unfurled and when you can still see skin.
I'm struggling with it myself trying to figure out my mysterious Cecily! She's got pink CFW skin, but grey feathers. It looks like her feathers are lighter than her normal grey brother, Wigglebug.
But it's hard to tell. I can't tell if it's an optical illusion due to the difference in skin color (so same colored feathers on 2 different skin colors? Or maybe Cecily's grey is actually lighter. Not entirely positive.)

Did you get a pic when you had them out last night??

I banded my three last night and took photos, so I'll share!

(Tell me that isn't the most precious photo of Cecily!)

[lnlovesorange]

MiaCarter Oh my they are precious, and you are right about that picture of Cecily!!! Looks like Tiny is FINALLY coming along and catching up huh? Phew! He had me worried for a while when you were talking about his size, I'm looking at my guys, going WOW he's half the size of them!!! Holy smokes!!!! Anyhow, I didn't take them out... I was scared, and the spoon thing you mentioned was... not working. So I have a 30X18X18 cage and the Bamboo nest (oval covered nest) is on the closest corner to the front on the right if you're looking at the cage, so to put my hand in the large front door I can't reach all the way in (my arms aren't very long as I'm just barely 5"2'!) So. alone i can't do it. Also, i wanted to see how my birds reacted, they flew VERY close to my head a couple times. (felt my hair being blown by their flying!) So they were kind of dive bombing me.... They never made that "alert, DANGER" beep, but...they knew I was up to something, and I don't know that they were loving what I was doing... But I did get to feed the babies again last night, which is good, because all their eyes are open now, so they seem me, when I feed them....Only one (I think the 2nd oldest next to EB, b/c he seems to be the most feathered besides EB) won't take food from me, so i just let him be. But I did put my hands up to the opening of the nest, and put the light in a few times, and stuck my fingers through the back hole (which I'm now calling the "poop hole" because all the babies back up to it and poop OUT the hole now!!! BTW sticking my eye in there was pretty close to getting poop in my eye the other day, I'm looking in going, "Hmmm...., what's this pink thing coming towards me...?" Then I realized it was a babies back end, and I backed away quickly to see poop streaming down the cage!!!! lol Anyhow, I looked through that, and gently, slowly put my fingers in and touched them, petted their back, and another one's head, they didn't flinch, or move away, which I thought was a good sign. So, I think when i can get my mom to help me, I will take them out, or like you said just wait til they fledge, and just keep trying to get them used to me through the holes in the nest (front opening, and "poop hole") kinda of a coincidence that the poop hole is in the back huh? LOL.
I was wondering that about the fawn... I'm going to try to get a good picture when I go home today, cuz already that chick as WAYYY more feathers than the picture I showed you. And It's funny because the skin is pink...but now, that he's feathering up, the feathers are DEFFINITELY lighter than his siblings, but his skin does look darkeer, but like you said I wonder if it's just because of the difference in feather coloring that's playing an optical illusion.... curious. Well, I can't wait to see what BOTH of our babies turn out to be, and like you said, so exciting that I have someone to go through it with me (especially where I'm a first timer!!) The woman I work with wants 2 of the babies, and I don't know how I'm going to give them to her... I KNOW i am going to be in love with them, but I have to keep telling myself i DON"T have the room!!!! Oh, that's my other Question MiaCarter or lovezebs as you 2 are the ones i talk to the most, cuz our "kids are the same age" lol What age can they go to their "forever home" how many weeks?

[lnlovesorange]

Ok, so I know it's not the best of pictures, but the babies are getting big, so they are kind of all intertwined and on each other and stuff!!! So the feathers you see sticking up kind of in the middle that are white, those are another birds tail feathers, my "white bird" is if you look at the lower left of the picture, see how these feathers don't really look....White per se they are more of a light brown or khaki, and the tips are white? I'm keeping my eye on him/her, to see, but he/she is deffinitely lighter than her siblings, although I think there is one other one that is light.... We'll see!!!! (exciting)

[lovezebs]

lnlovesorange

Haahaaha....
Just love the poop hole story. I've been pooped upon many a time, but not close to getting a bulls eye in the eye ball. I chuckle about that even as I write this. Oh so lucky that you got out of the way quickly.

Regarding when chicks can go to their new forever homes. Once the chicks are fledged and completely weaned (becoming official Weanies), they can go to new homes. That means, that the youngsters are eating and drinking on their own consistently, with parents no longer feeding them at all. To be on the safe side, I would give them an extra week, just to make sure they're completely independant, before they move out.

~Elana~

[Societies&Zebras]

Inlovesorange They are lil cuties. I just got myself a CFW hen that's 3 months old and can't wait to breed her but of course I have to wait. CFW zebbies are so adorable.

[lovezebs]

lnlovesorange

How are the kids doing today?

~Elana~

[lnlovesorange]

lovezebs Very well thank you. Did you see the pic above? The off white color? Next to EB, he looks VERY light, but alone, not so White ya know? But I checked in today and 2 are VERY close to feldging, but it's almost like they know because they are staying UNDER their younger sibs, and eyeing the outs of the nest with a little....trepidation. So we will see.... the parents aren't calling to them yet, so they aren't really being pushed to do it, so it's fine, but they very much so look unsure!!! But they are coming along nicely. Pinky is growing those white feathers more and more everyday, and will still take food from me, the older two...not so much. But it's hard to work with them through the tiny nest opening. I haven't taken them out, because well, there is just NO way for me to get ahold of them to get them out, and knowing they were going to have eggs/chicks in that nest, i really fastened it to the cage very well so removing the nest itself, is out. But no worries, I'm sure all will work out ok, I just can't wait to see them and interact with them!!!! I did FINALLY figure out my number. There are 4 chicks, and I KNOW 2 of them are dark, like NG fledges, and I know there is at least one white, not sure what the fourth is, I think white, but that could have been the original white one so not sure...we shall see. And how about your new babies? Canaries, Zebe's, Goulds? Everyone doing ok? Hey, while I have your attention. When my babies fledge, can I give them veggies, like Cuke's and everything I give the parents? Or do I need to wait until they are a certain age?

[Sheather]

They will eat vegetables before they can eat seeds.