My Little White Baby....

Learn about mutations and expected breeding outcomes.
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lovezebs
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Re: My Little White Baby....

Post by lovezebs » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:35 pm

lnlovesorange

Dylan, is right.
When the babies fledge, they are still completely dependant on the parents to feed them, so continue with whatever diet you have been giving all along. The parents will eat and regurgitate the food into the chicks mouths as the little ones beg. As time goes by, the parents will slowly start spacing the feedings further apart, and the fledglings will start experimenting with nibbling on veggies, egg, spray millet etc.

As more time goes by, parents will begin to feed less, with longer intervals between, and you will see fledglings trying to eat more on their own.

By the time the fledglings are weaned and become weanies, you should be seeing the kids eating and drinking on their own, and the parents no longer feeding them at all.

The weanies, can continue with the same diet as you were feeding the parents. Eggs, veg, spray millet, good quality seed mix.

~Elana~
~Elana~

Linnies~ Canaries ~ Zebras ~ Societies ~ Gouldians ~ Orange Cheeks ~ Shaft Tails ~ Strawberries ~ Red Cheek Cordon Bleu ~ Goldbreasts ~ Red Brows ~ Owls ~ Budgies ~ Diamond Firetails ~ Javas ~ Forbes Parrot Finches ~

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Re: My Little White Baby....

Post by lnlovesorange » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:57 pm

Here's the babes today. They so big! Not sure if you can see but there is one so still really small, but i think he's just a few days younger. But he might be a 2nd white! Hard to tell. Any thoughts if you can see him he's to the right.
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Re: My Little White Baby....

Post by lnlovesorange » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:06 am

MiaCarter lovezebs look at my babies!!! Look how big they are!!!! and look how small that other one is, she's gutta be a week younger than the oldest,, I'm keeping an eye on her so the parents don't leave her behind but i think she might be a lighter one too!! We'll see, i just wanted to make sure you guys saw these pics!!!

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Re: My Little White Baby....

Post by lovezebs » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:31 am

lnlovesorange

They are adorable. I see a little baby to the right (I think).


As long as parents are feeding, and sibs don't sit on her, she should be alright.

~Elana~
~Elana~

Linnies~ Canaries ~ Zebras ~ Societies ~ Gouldians ~ Orange Cheeks ~ Shaft Tails ~ Strawberries ~ Red Cheek Cordon Bleu ~ Goldbreasts ~ Red Brows ~ Owls ~ Budgies ~ Diamond Firetails ~ Javas ~ Forbes Parrot Finches ~

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Re: My Little White Baby....

Post by lnlovesorange » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:40 am

lovezebs Does she look like she may be white? I know it's tough to see, cuz it's not her full head. Also, do you see my light one? Doesn't he/she look darker than a CFW, I thought she looks almost fawn.... but this is my first time, and I'm only going by your and Mia's photos, so I really don't know, I just thought your CFW baby looked much WHITER.... I don't really care either way I think she is beautiful!!!

Btw yeah, you can see him/her in the last photo to the right next to EB her little eye is open and part of her beak is showing and her head almost looks like her head feathers are wet, they are kind of matted together, but she looks to be a at least a few days younger than the GIANT bird she is next to in the photo!!!

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Re: My Little White Baby....

Post by lovezebs » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:28 pm

lnlovesorange

When are the older ones supposed to fledge? A little concern for tiny one, 'cause it looks really tight in there. Sorry, I forget, are there three babes, or four? I can't really tell the colours yet. I post from a phone, so picts are really tiny. Ask Mia, she can enlarge the images better than me. :-)

~Elana~
~Elana~

Linnies~ Canaries ~ Zebras ~ Societies ~ Gouldians ~ Orange Cheeks ~ Shaft Tails ~ Strawberries ~ Red Cheek Cordon Bleu ~ Goldbreasts ~ Red Brows ~ Owls ~ Budgies ~ Diamond Firetails ~ Javas ~ Forbes Parrot Finches ~

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Re: My Little White Baby....

Post by lnlovesorange » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:51 pm

lovezebs I'm sure you saw my post, but one fledged today, and the other 2 should probably fledge this weekend (at least one of the 2) and then there's tiny, who looks like maybe a week behind the rest.... what are you thiinking? Will she get left behind once the other fledge? Should I pull her out? She does good begging, and gets right up in there when the parents go in... from the couple times I loooked in when they were feeding. And yeah, i know it's tough to see when on a phone, but what you "think" you saw, is a little bird, her eye is like half closed and she is MUCH smaller MiaCarter, I'll take your input too!!!

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Re: My Little White Baby....

Post by lovezebs » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:59 pm

lnlovesorange

Yes, I saw your exciting post. Woohoo.

Your little guys will fledge when they are ready. I wouldn't pull anyone out of the nest. They come out in due time. The parents will continue feeding both the nestlings and the fledglings as well, so no worries.

I'm happy for you. :-)

~Elana~
~Elana~

Linnies~ Canaries ~ Zebras ~ Societies ~ Gouldians ~ Orange Cheeks ~ Shaft Tails ~ Strawberries ~ Red Cheek Cordon Bleu ~ Goldbreasts ~ Red Brows ~ Owls ~ Budgies ~ Diamond Firetails ~ Javas ~ Forbes Parrot Finches ~

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Re: My Little White Baby....

Post by MiaCarter » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:37 pm

Aw, that little one is sweet looking!

She does look like she's a bit behind the others.
Assuming there are no unhatched eggs, the tiny one shouldn't be more than 3 days behind the oldest.

Look on this page at the 11-day photo, the 13-day photo and the 17-day photo.
http://www.petfinchfacts.com/all-posts/ ... -timeline/

Your tiny baby could be at the 11 to 13-day development mark, while the others are around 17-18 days. (The two in those photos fledged at the end of day 17).

We can't see the tiny baby's body or we could get a better idea of where she is developmentally.
Her head looks like 11-13 days old. Her eyes look like they're just about to fully open (or maybe they are open and she was just squinting in that photo). Her head feathers look "wet" because they haven't unfurled totally. And she still has baby fuzz prominent on her head.

The main difference is the body. If you can get a look at her body,
11-day babies have a strip down the back, but not much feathering on either side of that strip. So you can see the skin.
13-day babies are mostly feathered and you can't really see any skin on the back.

If she's at the 13 day mark, she's right on target.
If she's at the 11 day mark, she's a bit behind.

I wouldn't be surprised if she was a bit behind.
It's common in bigger clutches of 4 or more. There's more competition. And bigger siblings.
So she's probably getting a bit less food than she should be.

I wouldn't be too worried about her. Developmentally, she looks to be within a couple days of her actual age. (Which is still within the realm of normal developmental variation.)

If you can get her some extra meals, go for it.
Once the 2 biggest leave the nest, she should do better.
She'll be slower than the others to fledge, but I think she'll make it just fine.

Do you know what her actual age is?
Did they lay all the eggs then start sitting?
Or did they lay 1 or 2 eggs and started sitting right away while they laid the others?

Those babies don't look white to me. Hard to tell in this lighting, but they look like another mutation, like silver or lightback or fawn.
The pin feathers, before they unfurl, can be deceiving because they have a white sheath over them. So they often look lighter than the actual feathers. I think they're lightback or fawn or silver, not white.....except I'm not sure if that's possible with a CFW mom. Need to look into that!
Humum to....
13 Zebra Finches....and 2 squeeps!
3 Society Finches
6 Gouldians
1 Weaver
1 Pintail Whydah
2 Cockatiels
2 Parakeets

....along with 1 MinPin, 1 Pug, 1 JRT, 1 Yorkie, 2 Chihuahuas and 15 cats.


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www.PetFinchFacts.com

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Re: My Little White Baby....

Post by lnlovesorange » Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:09 am

MiaCarter there is actually an unmatched egg and yeah they laid 3 that i saw and then constantly incubated so i never knew an egg # and I'm glad you said that about fawn cuz i thought he didn't look white either (thanks to you & Elana's baby pics) but now I'm really confused! How can a ng and cfw make fawn? Lol

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Re: My Little White Baby....

Post by lovezebs » Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:41 am

lnlovesorange

Not an expert on genetic (in fact quite hopeless :-() but I think that it all depends on the genetic make up of the parents. We have no way of really knowing what the grandparents are, so there could be some unexpected surprises there.

Just sit back and enjoy these little surprises as they come popping out of the nest. Think of it like opening presents on Christmas morning, you never know what's in those packages .

SURPRISE!!!

~Elana~
~Elana~

Linnies~ Canaries ~ Zebras ~ Societies ~ Gouldians ~ Orange Cheeks ~ Shaft Tails ~ Strawberries ~ Red Cheek Cordon Bleu ~ Goldbreasts ~ Red Brows ~ Owls ~ Budgies ~ Diamond Firetails ~ Javas ~ Forbes Parrot Finches ~

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Re: My Little White Baby....

Post by MiaCarter » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:17 pm

lnlovesorange --- You know what's funny?

I peeked in my nest this morning and my light colored baby Cecily is the same colors as yours!

Mine looked fawn, which is perplexing.

It took me a minute, but I figured out how CFW + NG = fawn or lightback.

Let's see if we can work this out....

Fawn and lightback are sex-linked mutations.

"If a gene is found only on the X chromosome and not the Y chromosome, it is said to be a sex-linked trait. Because the gene controlling the trait is located on the sex chromosome, sex linkage is linked to the gender of the individual."

Birds don't have X and Y.

Instead, they have Z and W.

And the female is the heterozygous individual (the opposite of humans, where female is XX and male is XY.)

So a female bird is ZW.
A male bird has ZZ

Therefore, that means a sex-linked gene in a bird is found on the Z gene.

If your male was split to lightback or fawn, that means he has this:
Z with NG (normal grey) gene
Z with fawn/lightback gene


So if he pairs with a CFW female, she has:
Z with a CFW gene
W gene
(which doesn't carry anything; it just makes her a girl.)

So we could get:
Z with NG gene + Z with a CFW gene = NG male split to CFW
Z with NG gene + W gene = normal grey female
Z with fawn/lightback gene + Z with a CFW gene = fawn/lightback male split to CFW
Z with fawn/lightback gene + W gene = fawn/lightback female

Now, it should be noted that fawn/lightback male split to CFW will be lighter than a typical lightback male.

So that explains your light one!
Of course, this doesn't explain how I got my lightback/fawn chick.
I *know* my bird's parentage and grandparentage. (And the parentage of any other potential fathers and mothers). There's nothing but CFWs and NGs.
The only possibility is that my hen is NOT a normal grey hen. She looks like a normal grey hen (although her belly is quite beige.) I wonder if she's genetically fawn or lightback, but simply looks closer to normal grey. At this point that seems to be the only answer!

That's what I love about breeding. It's like a grab bag every time!
Humum to....
13 Zebra Finches....and 2 squeeps!
3 Society Finches
6 Gouldians
1 Weaver
1 Pintail Whydah
2 Cockatiels
2 Parakeets

....along with 1 MinPin, 1 Pug, 1 JRT, 1 Yorkie, 2 Chihuahuas and 15 cats.


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www.PetFinchFacts.com

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Re: My Little White Baby....

Post by lnlovesorange » Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:11 pm

So My THRID fledgling just came out, she seems a little smaller, and i was SOO Afraid i wouldn't be able to tell them apart even though she is gray like EB, but they look different, I think I have some EARLY fledglings, she honestly doesn't seem ready to fly yet, she's way more un coordinated than the 1st two, but she just couldn't wait!!! haha a I think she is a girl, but she looks JUST like her father, ad on her flanks, just above her legs she has fawn coloring (which i know this will all change, but let me try to get a photo..... And Thanks MiaCarter that actually make sense to me, but like Elana said, it's kind of cool not knowing, still can't wait to see them color up!!!! Let me go get pictures of # 3 for everyone!!!! SO EXCITING.... btw, do my birds love me or what? They are fledging on a day i'm off!!!!

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Re: My Little White Baby....

Post by lnlovesorange » Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:36 pm

Here are the babies, 2 is my feisty one, she won't let me pick her up, but 3 seems to like me.... we'll see!!! here are the beauties, btw, the 3rd one that came out the back of her looks IDENTICAL to her father, it's weird!!! But cool!!! She looks a little thinner than the others also, and my baby, well he just isn't ready to come out yet....lol
Also, are fledglings very stressful on the parents? As twice now Charlotte has kind of attached Melvin... like not bad, but she kind did a "get out of my face" kinda thing to him.... just wondering....oh and found out the hard way that my room is NOT fledgling safe.... ugh....
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Re: My Little White Baby....

Post by lnlovesorange » Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:48 pm

MiaCarter is Fawn the only one that would give me this brownish coloring? Just wondering, because like you said I HAVE not clue what Melvin is. Also, I am correct in saying that females can't be split for anything right? Like even thought Charlotte is a CFW, if her parents were fawn she couldn't carry that gene correct? Only the male can? My birds are TOTALLY getting a break after this by the way.... i can literally see the stress and tiredness in them...yet on the perch melvin's trying to do the "Dirty Birdie Dance"...Damn birds.... anyway fledgling age is tough to watch, it's hard as a human to watch them cry and the parents just don't feed them!!! I know they need to learn but that's some tough love if i've ever seen it!!!! They are feeding them,but not at every noise they make. OMG, NOW 4 IS flapping away in the nest!!! oh jeez, it's a circus in here!!! lol Anyway, did i have early fledglings or what? I'm pretty sure they fledged at 18 days (only one I'm positive about) 17 & 16 days!!!! Is this good or bad or indifferent? I'll be asking a lot more questions now that iI have 4 babies, so get ready to be REALLY sick of me!!!! lol
Also, Mia, don't know if you ever saw my Melvin, but now that i'm looking his wing tips are kind of Fawn colored.... can you see in the picture of him (i put it under general he is standing in front of the nest)

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