Same color head

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Gouldiandave
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Same color head

Post by Gouldiandave » Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:49 pm

I read on a gouldian fb group that u should only pair bh to bh
A rh to rh, the guy was saying that by pairing rh to bh, u get wrong blaze on them

debbie276
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Re: Same color head

Post by debbie276 » Fri Oct 23, 2015 4:40 pm

It's been said for years now, not sure I agree totally. It is said that like heads are much clearer and full. Have not witnessed that myself, seems to be more genetic then simply head color.
Debbie
long time breeder of lady gouldians:
Green
SF Pastel (SF Yellow)
Pastel (Yellow)
Blue
SF Pastel Blue (SF Yellow Blue)
Pastel Blue (Yellow Blue)

GREAT articles on avian lighting:
https://mickaboo.org/confluence/downloa ... ummary.pdf
http://www.naturallighting.com/cart/sto ... sc_page=56

Gouldiandave
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Re: Same color head

Post by Gouldiandave » Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:08 am

Thanks debs

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hanabi
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Re: Same color head

Post by hanabi » Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Gouldiandave

@debbie276

(Not sure why only the first mention works; I've seen other posters successfully use several mentions)

This is actually quite an interesting topic, with implications far more significant than blaze colour/intensity. Dr Sarah Pryke and her team at the Australian National University have undertaken a wealth of very important reseach on Gouldians, and have quantified the significant negative outcomes of breeding Gouldians with mismatched head colour. They include:
  • Increased stress levels in the hens of mismatched pairs (as indicated by the level of corticosterone in blood samples), with a resulting health cost to the hen;
  • Latency to breed (mis-matched pairs tend to pair later in the breeding cycle);
  • Latency to lay eggs (after pairing, mis-matched pairs tend to lay their first egg later);
  • Most importantly, genetic inferiority of the resulting offspring, resulting in high offspring mortality (on average >30%, and for females >40% mortality);
  • Highly skewed sex ratio of offspring (from memory, >70% males, because male offspring have much higher survivability).
The above results are for wild populations, so the most interesting question for me is whether these results are reflected in captive-bred Gouldians. This is one of my current research projects so I'll be accurately recording the sex ratios and mortality of my clutches over future breeding cycles.

As a general rule, given the above research, I would suggest avoiding pairings with mis-matched head colour.

You may have already viewed this ABC TV short documentary on Gouldian mismatched pairings:

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/2589683.htm

"Different head colours are genetically incompatible and can’t breed successfully. If this (black-headed) female mates with a red-headed male, her children will pay the price. Many of her chicks will die, and her daughters will do particularly badly – only one in five will survive. But to compensate, the female has evolved an amazing defence. If forced to mate with a mismatch, she’ll produce chicks that are nearly all male, which have a much higher survival rate."



References:

"Constrained mate choice in social monogamy and the stress of having an unattractive partner", Simon C. Griffith, Sarah R. Pryke1 and William A. Buttemer (2011).

"POSTZYGOTIC GENETIC INCOMPATIBILITY BETWEEN SYMPATRIC COLOR MORPHS", Sarah R. Pryke and Simon C. Griffith (2008)

"Experimental evidence that maternal corticosterone
controls adaptive offspring sex ratios", Sarah R. Pryke, Lee A. Rollins, Simon C. Griffith, and William A. Buttemer (2013)
Ross at Lake Biwa, Japan
African Silverbill, Chestnut-Breasted Munia, Common Waxbill, Diamond Finch, Forbes Parrotfinch, Gold-Breasted Waxbill, Gouldian Finch, Masked Finch, Owl Finch, Painted Firetail Finch, Pintailed Parrotfinch, Plumhead Finch, Red-Billed Firefinch, Red-browed Firetail Finch, Scaly-Breasted Munia, Self Society Finch, Star Finch.

debbie276
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Re: Same color head

Post by debbie276 » Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:08 am

Yes, Sarah Pryke has many very good articles out there.

I do not see any difference in my flock with mixed head color pairings as far as the health of the birds and I've bred gouldians for over 15 years now.
As for the head colors being brighter and fuller with same color head pairings. I've seen both good color and bad with same head color pairing and that's why I think it's more genetic then simply the head color.
hanabi wrote: Latency to breed (mis-matched pairs tend to pair later in the breeding cycle)
hanabi wrote: Latency to lay eggs (after pairing, mis-matched pairs tend to lay their first egg later)
I agree with this, I've seen non compatible pairs take much longer to get their act together then birds that pick their own mate. It had nothing to do with head color though, also happens with same head color pairs.
hanabi wrote: Most importantly, genetic inferiority of the resulting offspring, resulting in high offspring mortality (on average >30%, and for females >40% mortality)
Have not seen this at all.
hanabi wrote: Highly skewed sex ratio of offspring (from memory, >70% males, because male offspring have much higher survivability).
Again, have not seen this in my flock, I usually have 50/50 ratio in clutches. The only time I had more male chicks to hens is when I had my bird room in the basement.

With that being said, I do notice that given the option, most of my birds pick mates with the same head color. But those that don't have just as much success as those that do.

Will be interesting to hear your findings in your own flock.
good luck
Debbie
long time breeder of lady gouldians:
Green
SF Pastel (SF Yellow)
Pastel (Yellow)
Blue
SF Pastel Blue (SF Yellow Blue)
Pastel Blue (Yellow Blue)

GREAT articles on avian lighting:
https://mickaboo.org/confluence/downloa ... ummary.pdf
http://www.naturallighting.com/cart/sto ... sc_page=56

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