Gouldian ID help needed

[WesKnapp]

Can you please help me ID these babies (they are both male)... The ones I'm asking about are the lighter colored green ones with purple breasts.... I took some pictures of some younger green juveniles next to them for comparison.

Initially I had a male BH/WB/Green back along with a BH/LB/Blue back hen who hatched three babies (two of which are these babies in question). I now think that they may have hatched 2 eggs from the other pair in my cage which are male RH/PB/green (or maybe dilute? - is a slightly lighter green) with a BH/PB/Green hen.

I know nothing about the parents genetics other than visual observation as these four potential parents are new to me.

Any help on identifying these and their head color would be great. I'm thinking dilute, but the head color has me baffled. it looks yellow/orange right now

[Sally]

I am no good at Gouldian i.d., but I wanted to welcome you to the forum! There's lots of good reading at www.finchinfo.com, where you will find many articles on finch care. You will also find a Gouldian genetics forecaster chart there. If you put your general location in your profile, it makes it easier to answer locale-specific questions later on.

[monotwine]

I agree with your initial assessment. Definitely dilute backed and probably red heads if they were eggs from the other pair. I think it is nigh impossible for two black headed Gould to produce red.

first pair BH:

Gouldian Genetic Forecast by Carlos Matos
C_Matos@Bigfoot.com - All Rights Reserved

From following cross:

Male:
Black (Head) - White (Chest) - Green (Body)
Female:
Black (Head) - Lilac (Chest) - Blue (Body)

We'll get following results:
50% Male >> Black (Head) - Lilac / White (Chest) - Green / Blue (Body)
50% Female >> Black (Head) - Lilac / White (Chest) - Green / Blue (Body)

And your other pair must have a dilute male to produce any SF babies:
From following cross:

Male:
Red (Head) - Purple (Chest) - SF Yellow (Body)
Female:
Black (Head) - Purple (Chest) - Green (Body)

We'll get following results:
25% Male >> Red / Black (Head) - Purple (Chest) - SF Yellow (Body)
25% Male >> Red / Black (Head) - Purple (Chest) - Green (Body)
25% Female >> Red (Head) - Purple (Chest) - Yellow (Body)
25% Female >> Red (Head) - Purple (Chest) - Green (Body)

[monotwine]

Obviously this is excluding any hidden split genes they may have.

[debbie276]

What males you think they are RH? I'm really not seeing any color on their heads or breasts.
A SF Pastel aka "dilute" will have grey instead of black in all the normally colored black areas. SF Pastel will also have a lighter green back, somewhere between green and yellow.

Welcome to the forum

[WesKnapp]

thanks for your help everyone.

oh I forgot to mention, one of the newer babies has a white chest so I think these are from pair one, which would make my blue female a lilac/white breast for that to be possible, right?

Debbie: both birds in question have a few purple chest feathers....you can barely see them in the pictures I posted, but the head color is what gets me. they are this straw color...with no bright red or black feathers coming in.... i was thinking the faces might end up gray.... is orange possible?

[finchandlovebird]

If you had more than one pair in the cage for breeding you won't know "who mated with who", so you may have some surprises. A female could have mated with both males.

[WesKnapp]

Dolly,

true but these pairs NEVER seemed to go into nest boxes with the opposite mate. but the pairs occasionally took turns going into the same nest boxes. they ended up establishing their own nests but I think they might have laid a couple of eggs in another nest box first.

[debbie276]

Sorry, wish I could help with the colors but they just look like they are still in the juvie colors, I don't see any adult colors yet.
The bottom picture looks like a possible Blue chick in the middle. Is the body colors a grey rather then green?
Does your RH male have grey instead of black under the chin and around the face?

[WesKnapp]

the possible RH father has gray under the beak(chin) and around the rest of the face just seems to go from red to a blue band.

the other babies are split blue and are definitely greenish gray and not blue although I can see in the pictures I posted how they look slightly grayer than they are.

in the two dilute babies I definitely see purple chest feathers coming in but also one or two tiny blue feathers coming in on the side of the head (jawline area). maybe they will be gray faced? I would post another attachment but don't know how to from my mobile.

[wilkifam]

I think it is nigh impossible for two black headed Gould to produce red.

Not impossible at all. If cock is split to red, even paired with a black headed hen, they can produce red headed babies

[debbie276]

I think it is nigh impossible for two black headed Gould to produce red.

Not impossible at all. If cock is split to red, even paired with a black headed hen, they can produce red headed babies

Neither hens nor males can be split to RH

[WesKnapp]

I don't know if my post didn't go through or it didn't get approved so t hasn't posted yet. but the red headed male has gray under his beak (chin) and rest of the face goes directly from red to blue (no black line separating.

[debbie276]

Sounds like a SF Pastel but a picture would be a more positive ID.
As the chick's get older and into their adult colors it will become very clear which colors they are.
Good luck

[WesKnapp]

here's a couple of pictures of the possible father....