Difference between a chocolate self and black brown society?

[Icearstorm]

I am looking to buy some chocolate self societies in a bit, but don't know how to differentiate them from the black browns, which are known to be worse parents. I saw some dark societies at a nearby pet store, but I was reluctant to buy them due to unknown origin/genetic quality (they looked healthy, at least) and high price (more than $20 per bird). Any feedback would be appreciated!

[w.l.]

"Black" ones are unlikely to be in the average pet shop.
I am pretty sure you could safely buy what you saw, but if still in doubt, check pics online, for example here:

http://www.zebrafinch.com/SocietyFinch/Black_Brown.html

[lovezebs]

Icearstorm

Hi,

To the best of my knowledge, colour has nothing to do with parenting skills.

Societies, are Societies and they love nests, eggs, and babies; anyones nests, eggs, and babies, lol.

Regarding the different colours and mutations, I find that a picture says it much better than I ever could.

If you are really interested in a very specific mutation, you would be better off contacting a Society Finch breeder, who specializes in particular mutations.

[Shannylee]

What Elana said...societies are notoriously good parents to their babies and just about any other babies that they can fuss over. I have pied fawns, pied chocolates, dilutes, and DEWs and they are all very family oriented. Sweet birds!

[w.l.]

lovezebs

Black-brown Societies are actually reputed to be harder to breed than most Societies, and this is possibly due to the fact that they are the result of hybridizing Societies with hard-to-breed wild munias. The link I posted below discusses this in more detail.
I still find them very attractive birds, color apart, they also tend to be larger.

[lovezebs]

w.l.

Thank you.
I just read the link you posted.
Live and learn, as I always say, lol.

I had the opportunity about two or three years ago to get some of them, but was told that they had never bred, so I simply assumed that they were old and didn't get them, sigh...

They are beautiful birds.

[w.l.]

Well, would you get them now?
Even if not breeding, they could make a nice addition to your collection.
I keep many birds just for beauty, without trying to breed them.

[Shannylee]

I think I need to educate myself on what a black/brown society is! Thanks for the link, w.l.

[w.l.]

And then maybe add them to your shopping list, Shannylee?

[paul-inAZ]

I had a pair of black/browns a while back. These are quite rare around here.

Mine would probably be regarded as substandard specimens because the belly scaling was not very good. They produced a couple of clutches with ease so breeding was no problem. Offspring also had rather poor markings so I sold most to a pet shop and gave the rest away.
With good belly scale markings these could be a most attractive finch.

Amusingly, one pair of mine is now back in my house. I'd given them to a neighbor and now I'm bird sitting while they are away for the holiday. I still don't like the markings on these but they are not breeding them and don't care.

[lovezebs]

w.l.

They are beautiful, but...

Space is still (and always) an issue for me, so I have to pick and choose very carefully which species I can or can't live without .

[w.l.]

paul-inAZ

Sounds like yours may not have been pure black-browns but mixes of those and normal societies? Hence the poorer markings and the easier breeding.

[Shannylee]

w.l., I'm interested in their temperament. Sweet, calm society mixed with high strung, very territorial mannikin. hmmmm...??? Although, my mannikin hens do have a sweet side. They helped feed my last clutch of canary babies. Funny thing was that the chicks were bigger than the mannikins. LOL! I watched them carefully because mannikins can be vicious but the mannikin hens were gently preening and feeding the chicks and the canary hen allowed it. Anyhow, beautiful markings! I've never seen one.

[w.l.]

Shannylee

The Black Mannikins of New Guinea that are supposed to have been used to create these birds are more closely related to Asian nuns than to your fierce African mannikins.
The name "mannikin" is used, without any logic, for African and New Guinean Lonchura species, while the Asian ones are called munias or nuns, even though the New Guinean birds are more closely related to the Asian than to the African ones.
Only certain African members of the genus are aggressive, the Asian and New Guinean species are all peaceful.

The black-brown societies I have seen, imported from Holland, were big and somewhat sluggish looking birds. Their pattern and size was impressive, but even the trader selling them admitted they are somewhat reluctant breeders.
The heritage of their "Nun" ancestors, maybe!

[MariusStegmann]

Thanx for the info WI. According to some research that I have done some time ago, Self-Societies are apparently societies X witheaded nun X blackheaded nun. Where I am, self-societies are very difficult to obtain and are actually a dying breed. I thought that I could breed my own selfs in a few years by crossing a self bengales to my own bengales and was quickly told by birdclub members that it is not the same bird.