Difference between a chocolate self and black brown society?

[isobea]

w.l. - Oops, I guess I overlooked that. Sooo, what will you do with this pretty little lady? Set her up with a normal male or the other fawn? BTW, is that dark-eyed fawn a male or female? And how would you know? If it is a male and it is more greyish, I'm not sure I would like the diluted in-between color of their off spring.
Good night and Merry Christmas!
Iso

[w.l.]

Well, I had already said that all wild-caught fawn spices seem to be females.
So I'd have to give both of them normal males, hence the 2 brought home with them.
To get fawn males, I think one would need to cross a fawn hen and a male split for fawn. Anyway, the usual dark-eyed fawn birds and this red-eye are obviously two different things.

Merry Christmas to you, too!

[lovezebs]

w.l.

Here are some beautiful birds (Japanese I believe) for you to look over.

[w.l.]

Thanks lovezebs, though as I had already said, I am not really into societies - and originally joined this topic only to give some info on how and why black-browns differ from other societies.

Having said that, I like the last 2 birds, while the first 3 are not to my taste.
My impression is that the colors of the last photo have been somewhat manipulated to make it look more blackish though.

[Sheather]

Numbers 1 and 3 are my favorites.

[lovezebs]

w.l.

How about these ones then?

[w.l.]

Of these, #1 is seriously off-topic, while #3 & #5 are among the 3 most beautiful munias/mannikins on my personal list (b&w being the 3rd).
As you might remember, I have #4 & #5.
I'd love to have #3, while #2, an Australian species, is nothing special to me - I have its closest relative, the Pale-headed Nun though:

5894024478_f9dda34d1d.jpg

[isobea]

You guys, my computer is complaining about getting somewhat dizzy from me scrolling up and down trying to match the pictures to your comments.

w.l. - Now I've put pale-headed nuns on my wish list, too. Love their elegant coloring! When are you planning on coming to California?
Iso

[w.l.]

As soon as you send me the tickets, isobea!

Pale-headed Nuns are endemic to the Lesser Sundas and Sulawesi, and rarely come on the markets in Java. I bought my 4 one by one on those rare occasions.
However, I saw a whole cageful of them, mostly not yet fully colored young ones, sold in front of a Chinese temple for release in Makassar, Sulawesi:

FB_IMG_1482620933714.jpg

They were mixed with a smaller number of Brown-headed Nuns (and a weaver) which were what I bought from that cage.

[isobea]

w.l. - okay, I'll play for your plane tickets if you pay for one pair of Alarios plus one pair of Darmas... Remember you told me to get one of each (in a different post)?
I had to enlarge your photo but spotted the weaver and at least one brown-headed nun in it. I have no idea how you can tell the different species apart if the birds are still young and not fully colored. Very impressive.
Iso

[w.l.]

I have no idea how you can tell the different species apart if the birds are still young and not fully colored.

If they are already partially colored, it's easy.
If still totally drab, there tends to be some difference in size, shape and the shade of greyish brown they are.
But the important point is to know what species of munia occur in the given area.
There are usually just 3-4, which narrows down the selection considerably.
There are only 2 more munias present in that area: the Spice, of which there was one in that cage, and the Moluccan aka Black-faced, of which there weren't any - had there been, I would have bought them.
You can spot at least one more Brown-head towards the lower right corner of the photo.
If a young Pale-head was mixed among many young White-heads (very unlikey as their natural distribution doesn't overlap) I am quite sure I wouldn't spot it.

[Icearstorm]

w.l.

I don't think it was a spice finch; they seem too red-brown, while the bird I saw was dark brown-black. The scaling looked somewhat similar, though. I suppose it has been a while since I saw it, so my memory could just be fading. I stopped back by the stores yesterday and didn't see anything similar to it except for a duller society finch and a a spice finch. I was foolish to hope for the same finch to still be there after so long, but it was still fun to look for some birds, even if I didn't get to take any home.

[wilkifam]

Here FINALLY is a picture of an a Chocolate self (American)on the left and a Euro Black Brown on the right. Got the picture from Ivan Montes.

[Icearstorm]

wilkifam

Thank you! I think one of the birds I saw at Pet Supermarket today was an American chocolate self, but unfortunately it was pied and in imperfect feather condition (chewed-off tail feathers). It's interesting how the society finches at the stores make different calls than my white and fawn pied societies; rather than making a soft peeping noise, my birds' chirps are quite harsh in comparison... I wonder why.

[tamichels]

Black brown societies are European, and have a very obvious leaf pattern below their bibs and on their belly. Chocolate selfs are American variety and have little to no markings below their bibs and on their bellies. Euros are typically quite a bit larger and worth a bit more money as well. American self societies are what you would usually find in your local pet store. My husband and I have had more luck breeding the Euros, even though most have told us they would be more difficult!