What color babies will I get?

Learn about mutations and expected breeding outcomes.
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Flight Feathers
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Re: What color babies will I get?

Post by Flight Feathers » Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:55 pm

haroun wrote:
Flight Feathers wrote:
haroun wrote: http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=38805
@Icearstorm, thank u for that input, can u advise me what can be the outcome from my society finch see kin, i akready
Got onz from Fraza h'and have an idea.

@"Flight Feathers" pied loves you :mrgreen:
What colors are your soceities?
The hen is cream-ino, the cock brown chocolate i think
Use I
Also a bit off topic but how many dominant genes can a male zeb carry and how exactly does it work? Which genes dominate which? Does black face dominate normal? From my black face and cfw pair how would I get a normal ?? Sorry about all the questions!
Hen cream-ino, male brown chocolate.
About zebra and dominante, there is no limit i think you can have a BF Silver, crested cheekless and FC at same time.
FF the US version of Isabel is co dominante that mean uf you breed Florida Fancy to grey u will get a transitory bird. wich is single factor Florida fancy.
Also Light back dominates Cfw.
Okay thanks! So do certain dominant genes not dominate other genes?
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Re: What color babies will I get?

Post by haroun » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:31 pm

Okay thanks! So do certain dominant genes not dominate other genes?[/quote]
dominante genes do not dominate other dominantes genes even do not dominate recessive or sex linked genes
cuse
a silver BF BB LB exists
pure domination is relative to regular colors : bf or silver dominates the grey and fawn 50/50

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Re: What color babies will I get?

Post by Icearstorm » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:30 pm

haroun

I'm not sure what the base color of your female ino; it could be chestnut or chocolate. I imagine fawn would make an ino completely white, but yours has splashes of cream. I can't tell if it is pied; the ino gene removes most of the color, so pied feathers wouldn't be obvious.

Your male appears to be dilute, judging from the lighter wing-tips; this appears to be autosomal recessive. It also looks like he could have a trace of white in his crest, which would probably mean he's single-factor pied.

Ino, dilute, pied, and base color are all on different genes and are inherently seperately and act together to influence color... Basically I have no idea what the breeding outcomes could be, aside from saying 50% of offspring should be crested, and 50, 75, or 100% should be chocolate. Once you breed them, I may be able to figure out their genetics by seeing what the offspring look like.

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Re: What color babies will I get?

Post by Icearstorm » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:41 pm

Flight Feathers

After looking at your crested female more closely, she might be chestnut. It's hard to tell, but its beak looks a bit darker than is normal for a fawn. There's quite a bit of individual variation between fawn and chestnut mutations, so they can look very similar, depending on the bird.

If she is chestnut, either 50% or 100% of the offspring would be chestnut when bred with fawn.

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Re: What color babies will I get?

Post by Flight Feathers » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:53 pm

Icearstorm wrote: Flight Feathers

After looking at your crested female more closely, she might be chestnut. It's hard to tell, but its beak looks a bit darker than is normal for a fawn. There's quite a bit of individual variation between fawn and chestnut mutations, so they can look very similar, depending on the bird.

If she is chestnut, either 50% or 100% of the offspring would be chestnut when bred with fawn.
I was thinking some of my bengalese could be chestnut too. But you’re right that it’s hard to tell.
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Re: What color babies will I get?

Post by Flight Feathers » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:53 pm

haroun wrote: Okay thanks! So do certain dominant genes not dominate other genes?
dominante genes do not dominate other dominantes genes even do not dominate recessive or sex linked genes
cuse
a silver BF BB LB exists
pure domination is relative to regular colors : bf or silver dominates the grey and fawn 50/50[/quote]

Oh okay so how is the gene dominant then?
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Re: What color babies will I get?

Post by Icearstorm » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:17 pm

Flight Feathers

It's rather odd; depending on location, the color names are sometimes used semi-interchangeably, as well. For example, what would pass as a fawn in the US would probably be considered a dilute fawn in Australia, and what would be called a fawn in Australia could be called a red-brown or chestnut elsewhere. But then dilute, red-brown, and chestnut are all separate mutations on different genes.


As far as dominance goes, alleles on different genes will not interfere with each other. An allele is a certain form of a specific gene; alleles are frequently referred to as genes, so "dominant gene" could mean "dominant allele of the gene," which can be rather confusing.

So say you have a plant that has a height gene and a flower color gene; say that tallness and red flowers are both dominant. If a plant has dominant alleles for tallness and recessive alleles for white flowers, the tallness alleles will not overpower the recessive flower color alleles. It will simply be a tall plant with white flowers; the alleles do not affect each other, since they act on different genes.

Finch genetics would work similarly. For example, you could have a crested pied chocolate society finch, which would have at least one dominant allele for each the gene for crestedness (crested allele), the gene for pied/self (pied allele), and the gene for base color (chocolate allele).

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Re: What color babies will I get?

Post by Flight Feathers » Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:29 am

Icearstorm wrote: Flight Feathers

It's rather odd; depending on location, the color names are sometimes used semi-interchangeably, as well. For example, what would pass as a fawn in the US would probably be considered a dilute fawn in Australia, and what would be called a fawn in Australia could be called a red-brown or chestnut elsewhere. But then dilute, red-brown, and chestnut are all separate mutations on different genes.


As far as dominance goes, alleles on different genes will not interfere with each other. An allele is a certain form of a specific gene; alleles are frequently referred to as genes, so "dominant gene" could mean "dominant allele of the gene," which can be rather confusing.

So say you have a plant that has a height gene and a flower color gene; say that tallness and red flowers are both dominant. If a plant has dominant alleles for tallness and recessive alleles for white flowers, the tallness alleles will not overpower the recessive flower color alleles. It will simply be a tall plant with white flowers; the alleles do not affect each other, since they act on different genes.

Finch genetics would work similarly. For example, you could have a crested pied chocolate society finch, which would have at least one dominant allele for each the gene for crestedness (crested allele), the gene for pied/self (pied allele), and the gene for base color (chocolate allele).
Okay thank you! I’m sort of starting to get it. But with the dominant genes what if you have a male that is dominant and carries another dominant gene plus a sex linked gene and a reccessive gene. And then you have a female that is sex linked (same gene the male carries) and she has also had the same reccessive gene as the male. If you only get 2 babies, what colors will the babies be?
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Re: What color babies will I get?

Post by haroun » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:03 am

"But with the dominant genes what if you have a male that is dominant and carries another dominant gene"
That's impossible , dominante gene can't be carried , it's present and will show , or abscent (can't be hidden).

for dominante gene you have 1 chance from 3 : no one can have this gene , 1 from 2 can have this gene , and finally both can have it
for sex linked , male is split and hen is muted (no split hen for sexlinked) : same but we have take in consideration the sex (gender)
male:
1- both will be male and both are muted
2- one will be muted and one will be split
3-both could be split
hen
they could be
both muted
1 from 2 muted
both are regular

for recessive

both could be :
regular
split
muted
or
any one can be muted and the other is split or regular and vice versa (regular +split , split +muted , muted +regular )

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Re: What color babies will I get?

Post by Flight Feathers » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:12 am

haroun wrote: "But with the dominant genes what if you have a male that is dominant and carries another dominant gene"
That's impossible , dominante gene can't be carried , it's present and will show , or abscent (can't be hidden).

for dominante gene you have 1 chance from 3 : no one can have this gene , 1 from 2 can have this gene , and finally both can have it
for sex linked , male is split and hen is muted (no split hen for sexlinked) : same but we have take in consideration the sex (gender)
male:
1- both will be male and both are muted
2- one will be muted and one will be split
3-both could be split
hen
they could be
both muted
1 from 2 muted
both are regular

for recessive

both could be :
regular
split
muted
or
any one can be muted and the other is split or regular and vice versa (regular +split , split +muted , muted +regular )
So my bf male and cfw female couldn’t have had normal babies then right? Because bf and normal are both dominant ??
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Re: What color babies will I get?

Post by Flight Feathers » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:14 am

haroun wrote: "But with the dominant genes what if you have a male that is dominant and carries another dominant gene"
That's impossible , dominante gene can't be carried , it's present and will show , or abscent (can't be hidden).

for dominante gene you have 1 chance from 3 : no one can have this gene , 1 from 2 can have this gene , and finally both can have it
for sex linked , male is split and hen is muted (no split hen for sexlinked) : same but we have take in consideration the sex (gender)
male:
1- both will be male and both are muted
2- one will be muted and one will be split
3-both could be split
hen
they could be
both muted
1 from 2 muted
both are regular

for recessive

both could be :
regular
split
muted
or
any one can be muted and the other is split or regular and vice versa (regular +split , split +muted , muted +regular )
I’m sorry I don’t get it #-o What’s a muted and a regular ?
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Re: What color babies will I get?

Post by haroun » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:38 pm

Muted id bird where the mutation is eXpressed and shown, normal is bird with normal colors, the wild type grey for zebs is the nominative and base color
Note that the normal bird grey is considerated as dominante
Exemple
Male grey BF
Hene grey cfw
Male grey silver /OB
Flight Feathers wrote:
haroun wrote: "But with the dominant genes what if you have a male that is dominant and carries another dominant gene"
That's impossible , dominante gene can't be carried , it's present and will show , or abscent (can't be hidden).

for dominante gene you have 1 chance from 3 : no one can have this gene , 1 from 2 can have this gene , and finally both can have it
for sex linked , male is split and hen is muted (no split hen for sexlinked) : same but we have take in consideration the sex (gender)
male:
1- both will be male and both are muted
2- one will be muted and one will be split
3-both could be split
hen
they could be
both muted
1 from 2 muted
both are regular

for recessive

both could be :
regular
split
muted
or
any one can be muted and the other is split or regular and vice versa (regular +split , split +muted , muted +regular )
So my bf male and cfw female couldn’t have had normal babies then right? Because bf and normal are both dominant
??
Dominante need only one copy of the gene to be shown. So yzs they can have grey outcomes normal because if there no mutation gene, the grey gene express theur self on aby case, because as i said grey is always present

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Re: What color babies will I get?

Post by haroun » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:40 pm

Icearstorm thank u very much, keep u in touch once they breed, and i'll try to get pics of that hen parents

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Re: What color babies will I get?

Post by Icearstorm » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:06 pm

haroun

All right, that sounds good.

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Re: What color babies will I get?

Post by Flight Feathers » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:21 pm

haroun wrote: Muted id bird where the mutation is eXpressed and shown, normal is bird with normal colors, the wild type grey for zebs is the nominative and base color
Note that the normal bird grey is considerated as dominante
Exemple
Male grey BF
Hene grey cfw
Male grey silver /OB
Flight Feathers wrote:
haroun wrote: "But with the dominant genes what if you have a male that is dominant and carries another dominant gene"
That's impossible , dominante gene can't be carried , it's present and will show , or abscent (can't be hidden).

for dominante gene you have 1 chance from 3 : no one can have this gene , 1 from 2 can have this gene , and finally both can have it
for sex linked , male is split and hen is muted (no split hen for sexlinked) : same but we have take in consideration the sex (gender)
male:
1- both will be male and both are muted
2- one will be muted and one will be split
3-both could be split
hen
they could be
both muted
1 from 2 muted
both are regular

for recessive

both could be :
regular
split
muted
or
any one can be muted and the other is split or regular and vice versa (regular +split , split +muted , muted +regular )
So my bf male and cfw female couldn’t have had normal babies then right? Because bf and normal are both dominant
??
Dominante need only one copy of the gene to be shown. So yzs they can have grey outcomes normal because if there no mutation gene, the grey gene express theur self on aby case, because as i said grey is always present
Oh okay thanks!!
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