Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?
- haroun
- Incubating
- Posts: 981
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:23 pm
- Location: Algeria/Northafrica
Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?
Hi , as promise
i know i'm very bad teacher and sorry for my poor english
letters in minus concern only flankc color and can't be considred as mutation
abbrs : bf black flancks , of orange flanks , bi-c f bi-colored falncks
The original version of the black cheek mutation that appeared in Germany in 1983 was the version giving complete and intense black cheeks in both males and females, hence the name of the mutation. The flanks of the males were then orange.
As the work of this mutation progressed, a phenotype of black-flancked males appeared around the end of the 1980s. In 1993, Maurice Pomarède already differentiated between two types of black cheeks: black cheek with orange flanks (bcof ) and Black-flancked BC (BCBf).
This difference in phenotype is only visible on males. However, a female will only be able to breed black-flanked black-cheeked males if she is born from a strain of black flank blackcheeks; and conversely for the version with orange flanks.
In competition, the BCbf version that has been selected for the establishment of the BC male standard. For the female, no matter the version since the difference in phenotype is only visible in males.
Both versions are "mixable": so it's not about two different mutations. Indeed, the coupling of a BCbf male with a female from a BCof strain will give male BC males with black and orange bi-color flanks. This phenotype of BC male with bi-colored flanks can be qualified as intermediate that we note BC b-cf ("bcf" for bi-colored flanks). It can be assumed that the females resulting from such a cross will be all black cheeks and also "carrier" of the two factors flanks black and orange flanks (BCb-cf).
In addition, it has been observed that a black cheek "bearer" of the two black flanks and orange flanks crossed with a partner black flank cheeks will give in the males 50% of black flank cheeks and 50% of males with bi-colored flanks.
Whether it is a simple factor or an allelic version of the black cheek gene, there is still some doubt. However, to consider on the one hand the existence of two alleles of the black cheek mutation and, on the other hand, that neither of these two alleles dominates the other simply explains the observations made. According to this simplified theory, here is the heredity of the phenotypes that can be deduced for the two factors:
BCbf x BCbf = 50% male JBCbf and 50% female BCbf;
BCbf x BCof = 50% male BC b-cf and 50% female BC b-cf;
BC b-cf x BCbf = 25% male BCbf, 25% male BC b-cf, 25% female BCbf and 25% female BC b-cf (difference of non-distinguishable phenotype in females BCbf and BC b-cf);
BC b-cf x BCof = 25% male BCof, 25% male BC b-cf, 25% female BCof and 25% female BC b-cf (non-distinguishable phenotype difference in females BCof and BC b-cf);
BC b-cf x BC b-cf= 12.5% male BCbf, 25% male BC b-cf, 12.5% male BCof, 12.5% female BCbf, 25% female BC b-cf and 12.5% femaleBCof (difference in phenotype not distinguishable in females );
BCof x BCof = 50% male BCof and 50% femaleBCof;
According to this logic, a subject BCbf can be generated only if both parents are at least carrying the factor BCbf (hence BCbf or JNfb).
NB: special case a Black-Face male with two types of black cheeks will tend to have completely orange flanks, which tends to show a dominance of BCof on BCbf in the presence of the black-face factor.
i know i'm very bad teacher and sorry for my poor english
letters in minus concern only flankc color and can't be considred as mutation
abbrs : bf black flancks , of orange flanks , bi-c f bi-colored falncks
The original version of the black cheek mutation that appeared in Germany in 1983 was the version giving complete and intense black cheeks in both males and females, hence the name of the mutation. The flanks of the males were then orange.
As the work of this mutation progressed, a phenotype of black-flancked males appeared around the end of the 1980s. In 1993, Maurice Pomarède already differentiated between two types of black cheeks: black cheek with orange flanks (bcof ) and Black-flancked BC (BCBf).
This difference in phenotype is only visible on males. However, a female will only be able to breed black-flanked black-cheeked males if she is born from a strain of black flank blackcheeks; and conversely for the version with orange flanks.
In competition, the BCbf version that has been selected for the establishment of the BC male standard. For the female, no matter the version since the difference in phenotype is only visible in males.
Both versions are "mixable": so it's not about two different mutations. Indeed, the coupling of a BCbf male with a female from a BCof strain will give male BC males with black and orange bi-color flanks. This phenotype of BC male with bi-colored flanks can be qualified as intermediate that we note BC b-cf ("bcf" for bi-colored flanks). It can be assumed that the females resulting from such a cross will be all black cheeks and also "carrier" of the two factors flanks black and orange flanks (BCb-cf).
In addition, it has been observed that a black cheek "bearer" of the two black flanks and orange flanks crossed with a partner black flank cheeks will give in the males 50% of black flank cheeks and 50% of males with bi-colored flanks.
Whether it is a simple factor or an allelic version of the black cheek gene, there is still some doubt. However, to consider on the one hand the existence of two alleles of the black cheek mutation and, on the other hand, that neither of these two alleles dominates the other simply explains the observations made. According to this simplified theory, here is the heredity of the phenotypes that can be deduced for the two factors:
BCbf x BCbf = 50% male JBCbf and 50% female BCbf;
BCbf x BCof = 50% male BC b-cf and 50% female BC b-cf;
BC b-cf x BCbf = 25% male BCbf, 25% male BC b-cf, 25% female BCbf and 25% female BC b-cf (difference of non-distinguishable phenotype in females BCbf and BC b-cf);
BC b-cf x BCof = 25% male BCof, 25% male BC b-cf, 25% female BCof and 25% female BC b-cf (non-distinguishable phenotype difference in females BCof and BC b-cf);
BC b-cf x BC b-cf= 12.5% male BCbf, 25% male BC b-cf, 12.5% male BCof, 12.5% female BCbf, 25% female BC b-cf and 12.5% femaleBCof (difference in phenotype not distinguishable in females );
BCof x BCof = 50% male BCof and 50% femaleBCof;
According to this logic, a subject BCbf can be generated only if both parents are at least carrying the factor BCbf (hence BCbf or JNfb).
NB: special case a Black-Face male with two types of black cheeks will tend to have completely orange flanks, which tends to show a dominance of BCof on BCbf in the presence of the black-face factor.
- haroun
- Incubating
- Posts: 981
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:23 pm
- Location: Algeria/Northafrica
- haroun
- Incubating
- Posts: 981
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:23 pm
- Location: Algeria/Northafrica
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- Weaning
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- Sila
- Pip
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:20 pm
- Location: Europe
Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?
I have a new black cheeked male with bi-coloured flanks.
He is molting so it does not look that good at the moment.
A big thanks for explaining the genetics.
He is molting so it does not look that good at the moment.
A big thanks for explaining the genetics.
- haroun
- Incubating
- Posts: 981
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:23 pm
- Location: Algeria/Northafrica
Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?
Hi Sila nice bird
I think it's black Breast according to its oval flanking dots and its enlarged cheeks i can see some orange upon its eye
I think it's black Breast according to its oval flanking dots and its enlarged cheeks i can see some orange upon its eye
- Sila
- Pip
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:20 pm
- Location: Europe
Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?
The orange is his eye. He has red eyes.
I have a thread where you can see t in detail.
The tail bars are looking normal, no hourglass shape, but he has quite wide breastband. Split to blackbreast would be a much welcome surprise. I am not sure if the cheeks are enlarged. He looks fuzzy because he is in molt.
I have a thread where you can see t in detail.
The tail bars are looking normal, no hourglass shape, but he has quite wide breastband. Split to blackbreast would be a much welcome surprise. I am not sure if the cheeks are enlarged. He looks fuzzy because he is in molt.
- Fraza
- Molting
- Posts: 3700
- Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:16 pm
- Location: UK
Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?
Thanks for showing haround it’s interesting I have one that’s a black Breast but he has big cheek patches would you say a bb bc or is it just a bb or just a mutation bc
FINCHES I HAVE
Bengalese
zebras
Java sparrows
Silver bills
java x beng hybrid
PETS IVE HAD
dogs
Fish
Cocktiel
Doves
Hybrid cherry x Bengalese
Stars
Heck’s
Canary’s
My favourite is COCO my grey pearl society cock been here since the start my flock leader
YOUTUBE CHANNEL
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=fraser% ... de101&sm=3
Bengalese
zebras
Java sparrows
Silver bills
java x beng hybrid
PETS IVE HAD
dogs
Fish
Cocktiel
Doves
Hybrid cherry x Bengalese
Stars
Heck’s
Canary’s
My favourite is COCO my grey pearl society cock been here since the start my flock leader
YOUTUBE CHANNEL
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=fraser% ... de101&sm=3
- haroun
- Incubating
- Posts: 981
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:23 pm
- Location: Algeria/Northafrica
Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?
Fraza hi mate can u upload a pic of that bird, of course with tail bars
- haroun
- Incubating
- Posts: 981
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:23 pm
- Location: Algeria/Northafrica
Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?
Fraza i see a hen that u postin the gallery image. And yes she is a black breast blackcheek
- Fraza
- Molting
- Posts: 3700
- Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:16 pm
- Location: UK
Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?
haroun hi is it my black Breast zebras you want o see I will upload what I have but if they aren’t right angle I will get some tommorow for you
FINCHES I HAVE
Bengalese
zebras
Java sparrows
Silver bills
java x beng hybrid
PETS IVE HAD
dogs
Fish
Cocktiel
Doves
Hybrid cherry x Bengalese
Stars
Heck’s
Canary’s
My favourite is COCO my grey pearl society cock been here since the start my flock leader
YOUTUBE CHANNEL
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=fraser% ... de101&sm=3
Bengalese
zebras
Java sparrows
Silver bills
java x beng hybrid
PETS IVE HAD
dogs
Fish
Cocktiel
Doves
Hybrid cherry x Bengalese
Stars
Heck’s
Canary’s
My favourite is COCO my grey pearl society cock been here since the start my flock leader
YOUTUBE CHANNEL
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=fraser% ... de101&sm=3
- Fraza
- Molting
- Posts: 3700
- Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:16 pm
- Location: UK
Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?
I can’t find any picture of the male ive had my phone updated but I found one similar online just that my one has flanks ( the tail is also the same )
There is also a picture of there chick when it was younger till now an adult
There is also a picture of there chick when it was younger till now an adult
FINCHES I HAVE
Bengalese
zebras
Java sparrows
Silver bills
java x beng hybrid
PETS IVE HAD
dogs
Fish
Cocktiel
Doves
Hybrid cherry x Bengalese
Stars
Heck’s
Canary’s
My favourite is COCO my grey pearl society cock been here since the start my flock leader
YOUTUBE CHANNEL
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=fraser% ... de101&sm=3
Bengalese
zebras
Java sparrows
Silver bills
java x beng hybrid
PETS IVE HAD
dogs
Fish
Cocktiel
Doves
Hybrid cherry x Bengalese
Stars
Heck’s
Canary’s
My favourite is COCO my grey pearl society cock been here since the start my flock leader
YOUTUBE CHANNEL
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=fraser% ... de101&sm=3
- haroun
- Incubating
- Posts: 981
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:23 pm
- Location: Algeria/Northafrica
Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?
ok the two first pics are for BBBC hen & male ive the same oneFraza wrote: I can’t find any picture of the male ive had my phone updated but I found one similar online just that my one has flanks ( the tail is also the same )
There is also a picture of there chick when it was younger till now an adult
but pic N°3 & N°4 are them for the same bird ?!!!!
the juvenile is a grey bb may be a male and the adult is a faxn BbBC fawn hen ?!!!
- Fraza
- Molting
- Posts: 3700
- Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:16 pm
- Location: UK
Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?
haroun so the two middle are the parents and then the first and last pic is the same bird when it was younger till it’s adukt
FINCHES I HAVE
Bengalese
zebras
Java sparrows
Silver bills
java x beng hybrid
PETS IVE HAD
dogs
Fish
Cocktiel
Doves
Hybrid cherry x Bengalese
Stars
Heck’s
Canary’s
My favourite is COCO my grey pearl society cock been here since the start my flock leader
YOUTUBE CHANNEL
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=fraser% ... de101&sm=3
Bengalese
zebras
Java sparrows
Silver bills
java x beng hybrid
PETS IVE HAD
dogs
Fish
Cocktiel
Doves
Hybrid cherry x Bengalese
Stars
Heck’s
Canary’s
My favourite is COCO my grey pearl society cock been here since the start my flock leader
YOUTUBE CHANNEL
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=fraser% ... de101&sm=3
- haroun
- Incubating
- Posts: 981
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:23 pm
- Location: Algeria/Northafrica
Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?
Fraza
Yes now is clear, btw bbbc and bb/bc sometimes are confusing cuze bb is eliminating rhe tear drop which is a mark for bc split for.
Yes now is clear, btw bbbc and bb/bc sometimes are confusing cuze bb is eliminating rhe tear drop which is a mark for bc split for.