Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?

Learn about mutations and expected breeding outcomes.
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haroun
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Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?

Post by haroun » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:30 am

Hi , as promise
i know i'm very bad teacher and sorry for my poor english

letters in minus concern only flankc color and can't be considred as mutation

abbrs : bf black flancks , of orange flanks , bi-c f bi-colored falncks

The original version of the black cheek mutation that appeared in Germany in 1983 was the version giving complete and intense black cheeks in both males and females, hence the name of the mutation. The flanks of the males were then orange.

As the work of this mutation progressed, a phenotype of black-flancked males appeared around the end of the 1980s. In 1993, Maurice Pomarède already differentiated between two types of black cheeks: black cheek with orange flanks (bcof ) and Black-flancked BC (BCBf).

This difference in phenotype is only visible on males. However, a female will only be able to breed black-flanked black-cheeked males if she is born from a strain of black flank blackcheeks; and conversely for the version with orange flanks.

In competition, the BCbf version that has been selected for the establishment of the BC male standard. For the female, no matter the version since the difference in phenotype is only visible in males.

Both versions are "mixable": so it's not about two different mutations. Indeed, the coupling of a BCbf male with a female from a BCof strain will give male BC males with black and orange bi-color flanks. This phenotype of BC male with bi-colored flanks can be qualified as intermediate that we note BC b-cf ("bcf" for bi-colored flanks). It can be assumed that the females resulting from such a cross will be all black cheeks and also "carrier" of the two factors flanks black and orange flanks (BCb-cf).

In addition, it has been observed that a black cheek "bearer" of the two black flanks and orange flanks crossed with a partner black flank cheeks will give in the males 50% of black flank cheeks and 50% of males with bi-colored flanks.

Whether it is a simple factor or an allelic version of the black cheek gene, there is still some doubt. However, to consider on the one hand the existence of two alleles of the black cheek mutation and, on the other hand, that neither of these two alleles dominates the other simply explains the observations made. According to this simplified theory, here is the heredity of the phenotypes that can be deduced for the two factors:

BCbf x BCbf = 50% male JBCbf and 50% female BCbf;
BCbf x BCof = 50% male BC b-cf and 50% female BC b-cf;
BC b-cf x BCbf = 25% male BCbf, 25% male BC b-cf, 25% female BCbf and 25% female BC b-cf (difference of non-distinguishable phenotype in females BCbf and BC b-cf);
BC b-cf x BCof = 25% male BCof, 25% male BC b-cf, 25% female BCof and 25% female BC b-cf (non-distinguishable phenotype difference in females BCof and BC b-cf);
BC b-cf x BC b-cf= 12.5% ​​male BCbf, 25% male BC b-cf, 12.5% ​​male BCof, 12.5% ​​female BCbf, 25% female BC b-cf and 12.5% ​​femaleBCof (difference in phenotype not distinguishable in females );
BCof x BCof = 50% male BCof and 50% femaleBCof;

According to this logic, a subject BCbf can be generated only if both parents are at least carrying the factor BCbf (hence BCbf or JNfb).

NB: special case a Black-Face male with two types of black cheeks will tend to have completely orange flanks, which tends to show a dominance of BCof on BCbf in the presence of the black-face factor.

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Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?

Post by haroun » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:36 am

BC with Black flanks
BC with Black flanks
BCbf.jpg (9.55 KiB) Viewed 2263 times
BC with Orange flancks
BC with Orange flancks
bc with the two colors
bc with the two colors
BC BICF.jpg (25.21 KiB) Viewed 2263 times

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Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?

Post by haroun » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:39 am


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Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?

Post by Icearstorm » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:41 am

haroun

Interesting. Thanks for sharing!

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Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?

Post by Sila » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:46 pm

I have a new black cheeked male with bi-coloured flanks.
He is molting so it does not look that good at the moment.

A big thanks for explaining the genetics.
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Male with black cheeks and bi coloured flanks.
Male with black cheeks and bi coloured flanks.

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Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?

Post by haroun » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:02 pm

Hi Sila nice bird

I think it's black Breast according to its oval flanking dots and its enlarged cheeks i can see some orange upon its eye

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Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?

Post by Sila » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:28 pm

The orange is his eye. :mrgreen: He has red eyes.
I have a thread where you can see t in detail.

The tail bars are looking normal, no hourglass shape, but he has quite wide breastband. Split to blackbreast would be a much welcome surprise. I am not sure if the cheeks are enlarged. He looks fuzzy because he is in molt.

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Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?

Post by Fraza » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:49 pm

Thanks for showing haround it’s interesting I have one that’s a black Breast but he has big cheek patches would you say a bb bc or is it just a bb or just a mutation bc
FINCHES I HAVE
Bengalese
zebras
Java sparrows
Silver bills
java x beng hybrid



PETS IVE HAD
dogs
Fish
Cocktiel
Doves
Hybrid cherry x Bengalese
Stars
Heck’s
Canary’s

My favourite is COCO my grey pearl society cock been here since the start my flock leader


YOUTUBE CHANNEL
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=fraser% ... de101&sm=3

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Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?

Post by haroun » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:52 am

Fraza hi mate can u upload a pic of that bird, of course with tail bars

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Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?

Post by haroun » Fri May 03, 2019 9:03 am

Fraza i see a hen that u postin the gallery image. And yes she is a black breast blackcheek

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Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?

Post by Fraza » Fri May 03, 2019 12:34 pm

haroun hi is it my black Breast zebras you want o see I will upload what I have but if they aren’t right angle I will get some tommorow for you
FINCHES I HAVE
Bengalese
zebras
Java sparrows
Silver bills
java x beng hybrid



PETS IVE HAD
dogs
Fish
Cocktiel
Doves
Hybrid cherry x Bengalese
Stars
Heck’s
Canary’s

My favourite is COCO my grey pearl society cock been here since the start my flock leader


YOUTUBE CHANNEL
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=fraser% ... de101&sm=3

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Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?

Post by Fraza » Fri May 03, 2019 12:36 pm

I can’t find any picture of the male ive had my phone updated but I found one similar online just that my one has flanks ( the tail is also the same )


There is also a picture of there chick when it was younger till now an adult
Attachments
4ACEA91A-C2CD-4D7C-9F39-FDF67CED6EBE.jpeg
CC85D521-63B2-43E0-B9E1-02251899AE9C.jpeg
7F3D2AB1-134D-4EB1-BFB3-07709012B126.jpeg
7F3D2AB1-134D-4EB1-BFB3-07709012B126.jpeg (21.78 KiB) Viewed 2059 times
1B34B96F-5D43-4663-B185-0E4F90A3995D.jpeg
FINCHES I HAVE
Bengalese
zebras
Java sparrows
Silver bills
java x beng hybrid



PETS IVE HAD
dogs
Fish
Cocktiel
Doves
Hybrid cherry x Bengalese
Stars
Heck’s
Canary’s

My favourite is COCO my grey pearl society cock been here since the start my flock leader


YOUTUBE CHANNEL
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=fraser% ... de101&sm=3

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haroun
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Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?

Post by haroun » Sun May 05, 2019 4:18 am

Fraza wrote: I can’t find any picture of the male ive had my phone updated but I found one similar online just that my one has flanks ( the tail is also the same )


There is also a picture of there chick when it was younger till now an adult
ok the two first pics are for BBBC hen & male ive the same one
but pic N°3 & N°4 are them for the same bird ?!!!!
the juvenile is a grey bb may be a male and the adult is a faxn BbBC fawn hen ?!!!

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Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?

Post by Fraza » Sun May 05, 2019 12:16 pm

haroun so the two middle are the parents and then the first and last pic is the same bird when it was younger till it’s adukt
FINCHES I HAVE
Bengalese
zebras
Java sparrows
Silver bills
java x beng hybrid



PETS IVE HAD
dogs
Fish
Cocktiel
Doves
Hybrid cherry x Bengalese
Stars
Heck’s
Canary’s

My favourite is COCO my grey pearl society cock been here since the start my flock leader


YOUTUBE CHANNEL
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=fraser% ... de101&sm=3

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haroun
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Re: Black cheeks: black flanks or orange flanks?

Post by haroun » Sun May 05, 2019 5:11 pm

Fraza
Yes now is clear, :mrgreen: btw bbbc and bb/bc sometimes are confusing cuze bb is eliminating rhe tear drop which is a mark for bc split for.

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