Gouldian Genetics

Learn about mutations and expected breeding outcomes.
User avatar
Crystal
Brooding
Brooding
Posts: 1331
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:27 pm
Location: Richmond, VA
Contact:

Gouldian Genetics

Post by Crystal » Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:55 pm

If you are looking for information regarding the genetics of the more common gouldian mutations (the 3 head colors, white/purple/lilac breast colors, and yellow, green, blue, silver, dilute/pastel body colors), I have written up all of the breeding charts and outcomes. The article is illustrated to make things easier to understand:

http://www.finchinfo.com/genetics/gouldian.htm

And for a review of the genetic terms and their meanings (e.g. allele), see:

http://www.finchinfo.com/genetics/index.htm#terms

User avatar
Gaviota
Hatchling
Hatchling
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:04 pm
Location: Bayamon, Puerto Rico
Contact:

Confusion

Post by Gaviota » Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:39 am

Crystal, can you tell me by this photos if the color of my hens are lilac or purple???? In each photo the cocks are on the left and the hens at the right. I know the color of the cock in the first photo is purple, but I dont know if the hens chest color is purple or lilac. I need these for my genetics research, jajajajajaja :wink: . Thanks.

Image

Image

User avatar
Crystal
Brooding
Brooding
Posts: 1331
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:27 pm
Location: Richmond, VA
Contact:

Post by Crystal » Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:44 pm

They both look purple breasted to me.

Some good photos of lilac breasted goulds can be found at:

http://users.skynet.be/fa398872/engoulm02.htm

http://users.skynet.be/fa398872/engoulm61.htm

isabella
Pip
Pip
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 1:00 pm

beautiful gouldian i have never seen this colour

Post by isabella » Mon May 14, 2007 8:13 am

hi i have a photo of a beautiful gouldian finch, its from a website from the states and i have emailed the nice man from the site and thisis what he tells me it is, now to see if i can post a picture>>>??? but in the meantime i will copy and paste what he wrote:
Yes, This bird is from my site. It is a blue-bodied purple breasted red-headed male. The red in the head is more of a salmon colour due to the lack of yellow pigment in the bird. Normal green Gouldians are a mix of yellow and blue. If the yellow is subtracted from the green you get blue. If blue is taken from the green the result is yellow. I was lucky enough to get this from a pair of normal coloured parents. Obviously both parents were carrying the recessive blue mutation. This mutation is still expensive but prices are slowly dropping in the United States.
I raised these birds in the cold climate of Northern Minnesota. Snow was on the ground from october till April. 30 to 40 below zero Farenheit temps were not uncommon. Obviously heat and shelter were paramount. Contrary to the expected, the Gouldians dominated over Australian zebra finches and shared a room with a pair of cockatiels (quarrion) and a pair of gold mantled rosellas
ok i cannot figure out how too attach a picture but the website is http://birdpets.onenessbecomesus.com/Genetics.html it is worth a qucik squiz-the actual gouldian i am talking about is the 3rd one across-what does everyone else think about this colour?

User avatar
Crystal
Brooding
Brooding
Posts: 1331
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:27 pm
Location: Richmond, VA
Contact:

Post by Crystal » Mon May 14, 2007 1:29 pm

The 3rd bird from the left is a male carrying 2 blue genes and one yellow (this kind of yellow is a U.S. mutation, it's sex-linked and incomplete dominant) gene. It is red-headed and purple breasted. The "slang"/short-hand way of describing this mutation in the US is "pastel" but quite a few breeders are pushing for a different naming scheme which would have this bird called "Red Headed Single Factor Pastel Blue." Although I use the terms, I personally do not feel that an overall naming scheme for any finch mutation should include the terms "double factor" or "single factor" because nowhere else in genetics does this occur but with finch breeders, and it is still considered slang to true geneticists (who use the correct terms of heterozygous and homozygous and are often dishearted to see the rest of us using slang because that only confuses the matter). But I digress.

It is NOT simply a blue bodied bird, it IS carrying yellow as well, which means it did NOT come from a pair of just normal birds--at least one of them was carrying a yellow gene. It was probably the father. He probably has a dilute male that he has been mistaking for "normal green;" people do this all the time because the mutation is sort of subtle. He is correct that both parents were carrying the recessive blue trait.

I don't know if that answers your question.

isabella
Pip
Pip
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 1:00 pm

Post by isabella » Tue May 15, 2007 10:48 am

Perfect! Thankyou-it is so good to have this forum i am learning so much.

User avatar
rottielover
Flirty Bird
Flirty Bird
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:41 pm
Location: St. Louis MO, USA

Post by rottielover » Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:06 pm

Just thought I'd let you know that your posting on Gouldian Genetics (the page links above) were what eventually brought me to register here! :)

Excellent job!

I've even started putting some of that High School and Collage Biology class stuff to work ;)

In fact, right now I'm working on a record keeping system (several websites have posted sample record systems that I've been reviewing).

Also, there is a freeware software program on the net called "Gouldian Colors" written by Ricardo Andrade Veras (google is your friend). I managed to get it to run under Windows XP, it allows you to input the genetics of the cock and hen and will show you (in %) the chances for what the offspring will be.

I currently own two "Dilute" cock's and I am very interested to see what offspring I'll eventually (and hopefully) get.

A++ on your work!

User avatar
James
Novice Nester
Novice Nester
Posts: 409
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Location: Aiken, South Carolina
Contact:

Post by James » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:37 am

none if you don't get a hen :) :) :)
12 Societys, 2 Silver Bill's, 2 Zebras, 1 Orange Cheek, 1 Owl, 1 Lavender, & 1 Green Singer ---- Some are Clowns ----------All are a joy

User avatar
rottielover
Flirty Bird
Flirty Bird
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:41 pm
Location: St. Louis MO, USA

Post by rottielover » Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:08 am

James, please note my prior post is now over a year old.

Since that post my Gouldian Flock as grown to 19 birds in breeding condition along with several pairs for blues (blue cock or hen paired with a split for blue mate).

This "little" hobby of mine is quickly growing!

PS One of the cock birds I was talking about in this post has become one of my "top fathers" in the flock :)

User avatar
franceska
Hatchling
Hatchling
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:35 am
Location: Sweden

Is this even genetically possible:

Post by franceska » Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:20 pm

I have two breeding pairs of gouldians in my aviary:
PAIR 1: female BlackH + male SFRedH
PAIR 2: female RedH + male BlackH (where the male is a baby of pair 1)

Both pairs had several clutches of eggs this winter. The first "litter", which was from PAIR 2 was not ring marked at first, but all the other litters born (4) from both pairs were ring marked in different colours, while still in the nest. At a later time I have captured the unmarked babies and put rings on them aswell.

I assumed that PAIR 2 would produce all BlackH females, and all RedH males. However, now when that first litter is moulting, it turns out one of the males are BH. Is this genetically possible??

Otherwise, the only possible explanations is that either I somehow ringed the wrong bird, which sounds unlikely since there were/are no other unmarked birds... OR the BlackH male isn't the father. He was very eagerly taking care of all "his" babies though...

What do you experienced people think:?:
Finch nerd in Sweden, caring for Canary, Gouldian finch, Star finch, Owl finch, Parrot finch, Society finch, Grass finch, Fire finch, Sydney Waxbill & Button quail... so far.

User avatar
nixity
Molting
Molting
Posts: 3726
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:13 pm
Location: Gainesville, FL
Contact:

Post by nixity » Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:33 am

Franceska it is not possible.
Are you sure you banded (ringed) the correct bird? Is the bird 100% complete with the first molt?
Are you sure it's not a BH hen?

User avatar
franceska
Hatchling
Hatchling
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:35 am
Location: Sweden

Post by franceska » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:21 am

nixity wrote:Franceska it is not possible.
Are you sure you banded (ringed) the correct bird? Is the bird 100% complete with the first molt?
Are you sure it's not a BH hen?


Thanks for your reply! No, I suspected it isn't possible. That means I have to investigate this case more closely. If I somehow ringed (thanks for giving me the correct word! I'm Swedish...) the wrong bird, it should sort itself out when I start removing the babies from the aviary, and can give them a thorough re-count.

The bird is 98% molted... The mother has a lot of black in her face, it is about half and half red/black, but I heard that it is common with RH hens to have a lot of black around the mask.

There has to be a natural explanation - I will post it here once I figure it out :lol:
Finch nerd in Sweden, caring for Canary, Gouldian finch, Star finch, Owl finch, Parrot finch, Society finch, Grass finch, Fire finch, Sydney Waxbill & Button quail... so far.

User avatar
bluebutterfly213
Callow Courter
Callow Courter
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:10 pm
Location: Adelaide South Australia

Post by bluebutterfly213 » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:03 am

Im checking out the possible colour combinations with Gouldians using the
Gouldian Genetic chart by Carlos Matos. Great program :D

:?: One thing Im not too sure about, when the forecast results appear e.g.

50% Male >> Red / Black (Head) - Purple (Chest) - Green (Body)


or

25% Male >> Red / Black / Orange (Head) - Purple (Chest) - Green (Body)
25% Male >> Red / Black (Head) - Purple (Chest) - Green (Body)
25% Female >> Black / Orange (Head) - Purple (Chest) - Green (Body)

with regard to the info in bold text....

will the bird be any one of these colours shown
or show the first colour and split to the other colour shown
what happens when there are three colours e.g.red/black/orange.....is that bird a red head who would be split to either black or orange (a test mating would have to take place to determine)

Diane
Diane

Winter, the season in which most people try to keep the house as warm as it was in the summer, when they complained about the heat.

User avatar
L in Ontario
Mod Emeritus
Mod Emeritus
Posts: 13365
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Barrie, Ontario Canada
Contact:

Post by L in Ontario » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:21 am

If you highlight the row - a picture of the potential offspring will show up on the right side.

For splits - the offspring will show the first colour and will be split to the second AND third (if there is a third colour). This means when that bird is bred with another - the potential head colour of it's offspring can be either of the two or three - depending on the head colour of its mate as well.
Liz

User avatar
bluebutterfly213
Callow Courter
Callow Courter
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:10 pm
Location: Adelaide South Australia

Post by bluebutterfly213 » Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:32 pm

Liz
Many thanks for that info on highlighting the row and up pops a pic of the young!

Now that Great program has just became Spectacular!!

Diane
Diane

Winter, the season in which most people try to keep the house as warm as it was in the summer, when they complained about the heat.

Post Reply