FINCHforum

I just bought 3 new Gouldians over the weekend. One is a RH/PB Dilute male. How can I tell by looking the difference in him and a normal. Is there something about the area around the head? He has blue under his chin instead of black. His back color looks very similar to a normal back.

Terry

The SF yellow backs or Dilutes I've had just have a much lighter green back. They do vary from almost green like a normal to almost yellow.

Also if it's a white chest the back will be full yellow.

http://users.skynet.be/fa398872/engoulm34.htm

The above site shows two birds that are both Dilutes yet one is almost yellow and one green.

Dilutes do not have the black band around the face mask. Body color can vary in range so it is difficult to use that to judge.

Here is the link to a photo of one of our old pairs. The normal is on the left the dilute is on the right. Notice the black band is missing on the head of the dilute.

http://www.fairestfinches.com/albums/al ... 608029.htm

Hope that helps,
Sean

Thanks for sharing that Sean. It explains alot to me.
Wonder why it is that the dilutes always seem to cost more and I personally think the black band is much prettier.

dfcauley wrote:Wonder why it is that the dilutes always seem to cost more.

If I mess this up - someone jump in and save me.

I believe the dilutes are in reality a single factor yellow backed male gouldian with a purple breast (the purple breast makes it a dilute). Yellows sell for more than normal green backs.

Around me Yellow Gouldians sell for $120 each and up. I sell my Yellows for $110 and if they are split to blue, then add another $20. I will sell my dilutes for the same price of $130 as it is split to blue. (I'll be keeping one of them for breeding).

Yes, Liz I have heard that they are a single factor Yellow. I have also heard that in other countries they call them Yellows and not Dilutes. I am confused though as there are also purple breasted Yellows who look kind of dirty yellow with a green tinge to it. The White Breasted ones have a nice bright yellow to them. One of my favorite ones that I have is a beautiful Orange Head White Breast Yellow hen. My Straw Head White Breast Blue Back was singing up a storm to her yesterday and she was responding some. I think love is in the air for them.

As far as being split to Blue. How does anyone know for sure? I don't think that all of them even with a Blue parents are split right? I thought the only way to know for sure is to test breed them to see if you get Blue. Can someone enlighten me on that?

You have it right. You can only tell split to blues by breeding them. White breasted SF Yellow males are a pure yellow. It's the purple breasted Yellow males that are definite dilutes and the amount of green/yellow can vary.

Thanks for the comments - I definately have a dilute male because he does not have the black around the face.

Also, the dilute is in reality a yellow bird - it is just a single factor bird and has a purple chest so the body appears green (at least mine does). I also have a yellow back male with a purple chest that has a complete yellow back and he should be a double factor. When you have the white chest that is when it gets tricky to tell single or double factor.

I think someone asked about the split to blue - my understanding is if one parent is blue the babies are definately split to blue.

Terry

I have a yellow back with a white breast and he isn't more yellow than his son who is a yellow back with a purple breast. There seems to be a vast color difference with all the yellows. Some have more green in the SF across the board. The DF yellow I have is canary yellow.

I thought the difference between the SF and DF yellow is the light blue around the head. The SF is sky blue, in the DF it's white.

I'm so confused!

atarasi wrote:I have a yellow back with a white breast and he isn't more yellow than his son who is a yellow back with a purple breast. There seems to be a vast color difference with all the yellows. Some have more green in the SF across the board. The DF yellow I have is canary yellow.

I thought the difference between the SF and DF yellow is the light blue around the head. The SF is sky blue, in the DF it's white.

I'm so confused!

You're right about the light blue around the head. I have a DF yellow male with a purple breast (no blue band) who is just as yellow as my SF yellow male with a white breast and a blue band around his head.

Now if my SF yellow male had a purple breast - then he would have been a dilute! The white breast makes him a visual yellow back. Only SF's with a purple breast will be dilutes; and only males can be dilutes.

Now I know that only a blue or green back can be a dilute if it has a purple breast, but I thought a yellow could be a dilute regardless of it's breast color.

This is what confuses me. What is the difference between a yellow dilute and a SF yellow? I thought they were one in the same.

Ok, here we go ....

1. To make this easier to understand, think of male gouldians in terms of having two genes that determine body color. Both genes can be "normal" (a "normal" male), one gene can be "normal" and one gene can be "yellow" (a SF Yellow), or both genes can be "yellow" (a DF Yellow).

2. SF Yellows are aka "dilutes." If the bird has a purple breast, it's back color tends to be a lighter green than a normal's. If the bird has a white or lilac breast, the back color is yellow but can have patches/splotches of light green. This is because the breast color influences the body color in SF Yellows for some reason.

3. DF Yellows are aka "yellows." These males will be yellow in body color regardless of the breast color.

The easiest ways to tell a SF Yellow from a DF Yellow:

A. SF Yellow has a blue bib and ring around the face mask (no mask).
B. DF Yellow has a white/gray bib and ring around the face mask.
C. A yellow backed male with a purple breast is pretty much guaranteed to be a DF Yellow male .... if it was a SF Yellow, it would have the lighter green back.

4. There is no way to visually tell a bird is split to blue. But, you can guarantee a bird is split to blue if one of it's parents is a blue. The blue body mutation is an autosomal trait. This means that either sex can have the trait and pass one copy of it to either sex of their offspring.

Michele

Thanks Michelle, but what about the two yellow cocks I have.
One is white breast, the other is purple. They are both the same yellow color. The 3rd yellow cock is white breasted and is "primary color" yellow.

Also, how can a white breasted cock be a dilute aka SF? I thought all dilutes had to be purple breasted.

Do the rules apply differently to yellows as they do to blues or normals?

Hi, Jordan!

A DF Yellow male gould will have a yellow back regardless of the breast color. You definitely know a yellow back male is DF when he sports a purple breast. The white and lilac breasts are the ones to watch for in a yellow back male because they *could* be SF. Like I said, the easiest way to tell a white or lilac breasted SF from a DF is the color of the bib and ring around the face mask -- it will be light blue on a SF and white/gray on a DF.

The yellow back color on SF Yellows with a white or lilac breast can range from being a dingy light greenish yellow to a beautiful buttercup yellow. I have a lilac breasted SF Yellow male (Samson) who has a yellow back that would make a DF Yellow envious.

The term "dilute" was used to describe the lighter green back of a SF Yellow male when names were becoming established for the mutations in US aviculture. Outside the US, SF Yellows are referred to as SF's with the breast color designated -- i.e., "white breasted SF Pastel Green" or "purple breasted SF Yellow."

When terms like "dilute," "pastel," and "yellow" are used to describe a male gould, it causes a LOT of confusion with respect to understanding the genetics. Particularly because "yellow" is used to describe both DF Yellows and SF Yellows with a white or lilac breast, when genetically, the birds are very different.

Michele

Thanks again Michelle.
I've seen the difference in color in a blue back with white breast, but not any difference in a yellow back. Not the blue on the back, but the color of the belly.