Gouldian mutation end result

atarasi · Post by **atarasi** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:47 am

Since Liz hasn't designed the program yet(!), I need help in getting the end result....a BH, WB, BB cock.

The other day I purchased a YH, PB (split to white) silver hen and a BH, PB, NB (split to blue) cock. I have a BH, WB, NB (split to blue) hen. If I breed the normal split to blue cock to the normal split to blue hen, I'll have all split to white breast. I have other mutations, but how can I get what I'm looking for with what I have? I've used the Genetic Forecaster, but I'm not sure it's possible. If I breed this original split to blue cock back to the silver hen, I could get normal blue hens, but with a red/black/yellow head. Of course it would be easier if the breeder had a BH, WB, BB cock, but he is low on blues and split to blues.

Oh what to do!

L in Ontario · Post by **L in Ontario** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:46 am

LOL Jordan! What other mutations do you have? Any WB males split to blue?

atarasi · Post by **atarasi** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:35 pm

I have a YH, WB, DF yellow cock and a YH, WB, SF yellow cock. Also a YH, PB (split to white) YB hen. A WB split to blue would be perfect, but no such luck.

nixity · Post by **nixity** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:29 pm

atarasi wrote:Since Liz hasn't designed the program yet(!), I need help in getting the end result....a BH, WB, BB cock.

The other day I purchased a YH, PB (split to white) silver hen and a BH, PB, NB (split to blue) cock. I have a BH, WB, NB (split to blue) hen. If I breed the normal split to blue cock to the normal split to blue hen, I'll have all split to white breast. I have other mutations, but how can I get what I'm looking for with what I have? I've used the Genetic Forecaster, but I'm not sure it's possible. If I breed this original split to blue cock back to the silver hen, I could get normal blue hens, but with a red/black/yellow head. Of course it would be easier if the breeder had a BH, WB, BB cock, but he is low on blues and split to blues.

Oh what to do!

Okay.

You want a BH, WB BB Cock, correct?
Here's a possibility - (assuming these three birds are not related), and considering this would take a couple of generations, so if you're patient, or if you need it now, would depend on how you feel about this:

BH, PB, Normal/Blue Cock x BH, WB, Normal/Blue hen =
All BH, all Purple/White Breast, Normals, Normal/Blue or Blue babies.
Because you obviously can't tell the Normals from the Normals/Blue, you'd have to hold back at least half to test breed them - at which point, I'd test breed the males to the Silver hen.
If you have a /BB male - you should at least end up with 25% WB, Blue babies - but they will all be RH/BH - at this point, if you aquired a BH, WB, Normal/Blue hen - you could pair these males, and you'd be able to achieve your BH, WB Blue Cocks.
I probably flubbed some of this up here or took turns that didn't need to be taken, but I'm just doing this off the top of my head.
To really work something out, I'd have to write it down and know exactly what you have in terms of unrelated potential pairings.

atarasi · Post by **atarasi** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:11 am

I currently have the split to BB cock with the split to BB hen together. Couldn't I just breed one of the BB offspring that would be split to WB back to his mother? Too close? The silver hen has really thrown my understand of genetics off. If I bred one of the BB cocks from the BB pair to the silver hen, I would get blue hens and pastel cocks, right?

nixity · Post by **nixity** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:08 am

atarasi wrote:I currently have the split to BB cock with the split to BB hen together. Couldn't I just breed one of the BB offspring that would be split to WB back to his mother? Too close? The silver hen has really thrown my understand of genetics off. If I bred one of the BB cocks from the BB pair to the silver hen, I would get blue hens and pastel cocks, right?

I guess it depends on how you feel about inbreeding and linebreeding. I am adamently opposed to it. I realize that line breeding through certain generations/sides (aunt to nephew and further removed) can bring out the best in a generation of birds, but I've seen it bring out the worst - and I've seen this happen with dogs, cats, and horses, too.
It's just not worth it to me. Mother/Son Father/Daughter is not far enough removed IMO - especially when working with a mutation such as blue body - to sufficiently guarantee strong offspring.
I also wouldn't pair a Blue to a Silver. JMO, though.
I am not confident at the success rate of pairing blues together to do it myself, so I would never recommend it to anyone else. There's just too much degradation apparently in successive generations (putting further progeny at risk).
I think you would see larger, more robust blues by outcrossing to unrelated, healthy splits rather than pairing blues to blues. (Silver is just blue body combined with yellow body).

If you bred a (PB) Blue cock with a (PB) Silver hen, though, yes - you would produce all Blue hens, and all Pastel cocks.
If both birds are split for WB, you also have the chance of producing SF Yellow WB Blue birds (Silver males).

atarasi · Post by **atarasi** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:35 pm

Thanks, something I'll definitely reconsider.

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Gouldian mutation end result

Gouldian mutation end result

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