Pastel or Silver?

[L in Ontario]

In another thread there is a pic of what I thought was a Pastel Blue Gouldian. But Tiffany said it "is definitely a Silver".

I thought I have both silver and pastel blue Gouldian males. I thought the Pastel IS a silver but having the purple breast and therefore the blueish tint to it's back is what made it a pastel. Or is it the red (or salmon) head colour that makes it a true pastel? If it's breast was white - would it be considered silver?

Silver-

Pastel or -???

Spirit022708a.jpg (36.74 KiB) Viewed 3409 times

Signed...
back to the drawingboard!

[CandoAviary]

As I understand it a pastel is the blue form of a green dilute or sf green.
This is a dilute blue aka pastel blue


Silvers can be sf or df. df are more white, sf more silver or blue depending on the breast color..
sf with purple breast will show some blue in the back
sf white breast will look silver
df with purple breast will be very silver..or some say dingy white
df with white breast look white

My question is what is a powder blue? May be that is what you have Liz?

[CandoAviary]

I believe you have a sf silver with PB
If it had a WB it would look more silver like this
Red Head

Black Head


If it was df it would look white
LB or PB? what do you say this is Tiffany?

Or WB

[bernd76287]

SF silver and df silver can easy distinguished when they fledge: The sf always have a dark grey bill!
Most sf Silver cocks shows some dark feathers but not all!!!!
This is my experience!

[CandoAviary]

Oops.... I guess I got it wrong again
Just when I thought I was learning Help ... oh great one

[nixity]

There are only two mutation body colors in gouldians:

Blue & Yellow

Silver and Pastels are simply a combination of these two mutations.

Powder Blue is a layman's term of "SF Pastel Blue" or "Pastel"

It is just one more instance of someone describing a bird's mutation by it's physical appearance instead of it's genotype, which just causes confusion because, and this is a perfect example, it makes it seem as if it is somehow different than a Pastel when it is not.

Just like a SF Yellow (Dilute) can visually range in color from a lime green to a lemon lime, a Pastel can range in color from "Powder Blue Grey" to "Light Blue"

Similarly, there is no such thing as "rose breast," sorry, Candace! I'm not picking on you LOL

There are only three alleles that exist for breast color, which is controlled by a single gene: Purple, Lilac and White.
Rose is just another name for Lilac, which also causes confusion.

It is like someone saying "Straw Head" or "Salmon Head" instead of Red or Orange. They are the same thing, just called as they appear instead of what they truly are genetically.

[nixity]

The third photo down looks like a PB Silver Hen, Candace Are you certain it is male?

[CandoAviary]

I did know that rose breast is just a desciptive term. I think people use it to describe a more pink tone lilac than a purple tone lilac. Hey I do actually understand that

Same as you call them Orange heads... they are actually Yellow heads some people find this confusing...some helpful
(and I am picking at you )

Same with salmon and straw head... Question...would you ever be able to visually tell if the head is from YH or RH?

Also do you think I have the ones up above pegged right?
Also do you think that one male is a lilac breast? It is for sure a male as he is singing and courting as we speak

[CandoAviary]

I see we crossed posted... Yep he's a he.

[L in Ontario]

Just to clarify - are you saying both pics of mine are Silvers?

The parents of the first male were: C=RH,WB,SFY+B + BH,P/WB,BB

The parents of the second male were: C=RH,BP,SFPB + RH,WB,BB

Genetics 101

[CandoAviary]

Still waiting to see if I had mine labled right.
remedial genetics here
But I would think that they were both silvers That second one just has a lot of blue...
what is the color that is considered powder blue? I know it is just another one of those descriptive visual terms but inquiring minds want to know what it physically looks like

[nixity]

The parents of the second male were: C=RH,BP,SFPB + RH,WB,BB

Genetics 101

Your second male would have to be a Pastel Liz, just from your parents information alone.

A PB Male can only be "Silver" if he is DF Yellow, which isn't possible based on the parents information.

Your male can only be SF Yellow, and is very clearly Purple, making him a SF Yellow Blue or SF Pastel Blue.
He just shows more expression of the "yellow" making him look more "powder blue" in color ;)
lol

The first male is still SF Yellow, but being WB makes him visually appear Silver.

[nixity]

Same as you call them Orange heads... they are actually Yellow heads some people find this confusing...some helpful
(and I am picking at you )

Lol, yes, you are right

Same with salmon and straw head... Question...would you ever be able to visually tell if the head is from YH or RH?

Unfortunately no, the only way to know is by test breeding or by knowing the parents genetics. I.e., two OH N/B that produce a Blue, you know that blue is genetically OH.

Also do you think that one male is a lilac breast? It is for sure a male as he is singing and courting as we speak

Yes I would think he is LB

[nixity]

Also do you think I have the ones up above pegged right?

Sorry, had to go back and look, yes, I think you have them correct. 1 and 2 SF, 3 and 4 DF

[CandoAviary]

Oh... I pat myself on the back
oops...not too soon... I had Liz as both silvers
Just when I thought I knew something. It is amazing how much white is on that pastel. But I guess it is like when a green dilute is almost yellow..... hmmmm... I learned something new today