FINCHforum

hi guys
i had some thoughts about mosaics, i cant find a lot of info on them on the net.
what do you think the outcome would be if you:
1-cross a red factor with a dominant white would you get mosaic babies (how do you get mosaics anyway).
2- if you allow a yellow mosaic to breed with a red mosaic, what would the outcome of the chicks be? or a mosaic with a normal yellow or orange canary.
3- also can a hen have a head fully coloured with no marking on chest? or is that a cock.

1. You would get half dominant-white chicks and half poor-quality mosaic-like birds in some shade of orange. That is because the mosaic trait is due to siskin heritage which you can imagine gets diluted when bred to a bird that does not carry the trait. Orange because I assume whatever dominant-white bird you use will be split to yellow. To get pure mosaics you must breed mosaic to mosaic.

2. Crossing red-mosaic to yellow-mosaic is likely to give you mosaic chicks of some orange shade since you would be diluting the red with yellow. A red-mosaic and yellow canary cross would also result in chicks with color some shade in-between red and yellow. Those chicks are likely to have a poor mosaic pattern. I have seen a yellow mosaic and "common" yellow cross which resulted in birds that looked more like very heavily frosted rather than mosaic.

3. Some mosaic hens have colored faces. That trait is not acceptable on hens if you are going to show. Such hens do serve a purpose, though. The best way to breed males with good, strong color in their faces is to use a hen with color in her face. This is quite complicated if you consider the standard calls for hens to have little color in the face. If you're trying to breed the best show-quality males then you might want to use a hen with lots of color on her face but if your aim is to breed hens to show then you are better off using hens with little facial color.

I hope that isn't too confusing. I also hope I'm right about all that because I am rather new to breeding myself. I had some experience with mosaics in the past, if that counts for anything.

If someone can correct me on what I said here, that would be much appreciated. I am new here so I'm hoping to learn in addition to helping others learn.

You certainly know more than I do, I don't know much about canaries at all! And welcome to the forum! There's lots of good reading at the Finch Information Center, though it is geared towards finches rather than canaries, and the members are always ready to help. We'd love to see some pictures of your canaries.

Thanks for the warm welcome, Sally.

These are my birds:

hey Green Chopper

after much research and advice from breeders, i can say you are correct on all counts. i also didn't know at that point that mosaic is a feather type.

Anw here is a pic i got from the net explaining the ideal pairing to get show quality birds. it was in turkish so i did some editing to turn it into english.

You know, Adam, it doesn't surprise me at all to see you've found helpful info out there other than just what's written in English.

I say that because I found out tons more about my Razas from Spanish sources as opposed to the few in English.

Bravo for being so resourceful and thanks for sharing.

I can just imagine someone will inevitably stumble upon this thread and find all this information to be very helpful.

Green Chopper just noticed your razas. very pretty birds

they are very similar to timbrados look wise.
is it the song that differs?

Hi Adam, i've been doing some research into the colour breeding also and Green Chopper also gave me some very good info.

The more i research the more complicated it seems to be, i found this article to be good with examples and detailed explanations although when there are alot of variables involved it gets a bit overwhelming

http://dunedinbirdclub.freehostia.com/a ... l#genetics

Smurf very helpful link, but gave me a headache it took me back to Genetics courses in biology class (i should have paid more attention)

I agree it is quite overwhelming if you want to take it all in. but if you work on the basis of choosing a type or colour and focussing on, it will be easier.

for anyone who will read this in the future. here is some more info that can be helpful.

-Mosaic is a feather type.

-When they cross breed the red siskin with canaries. the results where the red factor canary (intensive, non intensive) and the clear red mosaic.

-Mosaic are sexually dimorphic (most of the time) some males dont have full masks and some hens are over masked.

-Clear red mosaics need colour feed to get the red colour, if not colour fed they will turn orange.

-for showing purposes, mosaic chicks are fed things low in beta carotene. usually eggfood for white canaries. because the slightest carotene will colour the birds. (see molt part below)

-to have show quality or ideal birds it is advised to follow the pairing showed in the above attachment.


canaries usually molt once a year, they will change all their feathers.

As babies, between 7 to 10 weeks old, they will start the baby molt were they will change all the body feathers (the flight and tail feathers are not molted)

so if you colour feed from hatch day , the flight and tail feather will get the colour. (tail and flight feathers will stop growing when the baby is between 30 to 45 days old)

if you wait till they fledge and start colour feeding just before the baby molt starts and throughout, the body will get the colour and the wings will remain clear.

hope this will be of some help

adoumski, the story is that Razas were bred by crossing Timbrados with small specimens of wild Atlantic canaries. That might explain the resemblance you see. Their song differs in that most Timbrados are bred for their metallic notes whereas wild canaries belt somewhere in between hollow, watery, and metallic. My best guess is the Raza song lies somewhere in between those two. Must admit that's only a guess because I have never heard a wild canary or Timbrado in person. I can only compare loudness to the Fifes, American Singers, and common choppers I have heard before. Razas sound louder than all those did to me.

In fact, the man who sold me my male described his singing as "belting his little heart out" and sure enough the first time he sang for me was while he was still in his dark, cardboard carrier. It was so loud I had to raise my voice in order to maintain the conversation I was having in another room.

I'll have to upload a video for you to judge for yourself. Only problem is my male hasn't sung lately since he's been with his hen. After they raise this clutch they are working on right now I plan to separate them for a while so the hen can rest and I can record his song.

Green Chopper i havent heard a raza before, will search for some videos, waiting for you to post one when he starts singing again .
I love timbrados and Russian singers but never heard them live. Over here 99% of canaries are type or colour canaries.

And good luck with the breeding. Post pics of the babies when they hatch.