FINCHforum

Wow, what an ordeal. Here is my original post:

Pumpkin:-)

Soooo, I've been treating them with S76, Wormaway, etc....the S76 stopped the scratching and excessive grooming, but Pumpkin....poor thing....there is still something OFF!

He is still poofy, and is very clumsy. He can't fly well, he smashes into things. Other than that he is active at times of the day, and eats. And eats.....and eats.

I don't mean normal bird eating a lot, I mean NON-STOP eating. I picked him up and to me he seemed rather thin....so off to the vet I go....time to stop self treating and get to the bottom of it!

They check for mega bacteria, nothing. She is suspecting parasites of some sort. He was weighted and is super underweight. She went as far to say 'skin and bones'. With the way he eats, there is no way that is right. Soooo....I am collecting his poops in a jar of solution for 4 days and then bringing it back for analysis....

I am so scared he will not last that long, I mean I guess he's been like this for a while and seems fine other than that, but now I'm paranoid, knowing he is getting literally no nutrients from his food. Sometimes his poop has undigested food in it....

He is also trying to molt. What a mess!

Has anyone had issues with a parasite like this? What was the outcome? What did the vet put them on? Any help would be SO appreciated!

I feel so terrible, I should have just brought him to the vet ASAP instead of trying all the other things, although the S76 did clear one thing up! I can't imagine being perpetually hungry like he has been, and feeling all weak and exhausted. That would explain so many things, like the no singing. I am so sad for my little guy....and I feel like a terrible bird mom. I'm having such a rough time with these birds. Stupid stupid pet stores! ARG!

Thanks so much in advance!

It could be a worm that the Worm Away is not killing. If you are afraid he is going down hill quicker than the vet lab results, I would give him Ronex 12 % for 7 days. The vet can prescribe this, which is metronidazole. I hope he improves!

Here is a topic from 2010 talking about a bird that was eating nonstop. Several possibilities were mentioned in this topic.

http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8759

Hi StarSpun,

don't beat yourself up. The main thing is you DID take your bird to the vet, and he/she's getting treatment now. Birds are notoriously hard to diagnose and treat, and they are VERY good at covering up when they get ill. Whenever I get a new bird, it goes straight to the vet and gets wormed, anti-mited, and tested for everything else they can think of (as well as quarantine for 10 days to 2 weeks) andI only have 3 Birds!

Birds also have an extremely high metabolism and will eat LOTS and LOTS! My canary is a pig, and eats like a horse but stays slim (well technically he's a LITTLE overweight, but he's old and arthritic so that's OK apparently).

I hope Pumpkin gets better. You can only do so much. When owning birds be aware that some may die, regardless of what you do or how you love them. It doesn't mean you are a bad owner - these are delicate little birds, and they can die very easily.

I had a young Zebbie, Hughie, who died one night in his nest. He was only six months old. My vet said he probably had an existing internal malformation or issue. I was devastated at the time and though it was something I'd done, but I know from being on this forum for a period of time that many other members have had the same sad experience.

Be kind to yourself. Good luck to Pumpkin. What a sweetie.

Kind Regards

Zebrafincher
Proud owner of:
*Kevin aka “The Old Man” - cranky canary – 12 years old
*Beaky aka “Beakster” the Zebrafinch – 1 year old – and a real, real cutie!!!
*Merlin aka “Merl” the Starfinch – 3 years – and “bossy as anything for such a small fry!”

The vet should be able to see alot in the fecal exam, fresh droppings taken that day would help show bacteria. Undigested food could be a coccidial or protozoal infection. In which case the fecal may or may not show oocysts as they shed them periodically.

This is why most of us do a quarantine preventative medication these days. Not all like doing medication as preventatives, but common ailments like Coccidiosis and parasites are around enough to consider doing just as a routine treatment to prevent it from occurring or building up in the birds environment.

With new birds, I personally treat for stress first, then depending on the bird or where I got it I follow through with deparasiting / deworming, anti-coccidial, anti-protoza and then see if anything else comes up. I don't treat for bacterial diseases unless the birds show signs of it.

Hope your baby gets diagnosed and treatment soon. In the mean time add some extra heat for him as if he is skinny and not getting nourishment, he will need it.

Do you have a nearby store that stocks medications / can deliver ASAP? The vet should be able to supply what you need, but it would be a good idea to know where you closest stockist is if you need anything in a rush.

Hello starspun, you do have a problem on your hands as finches and canaries do eat a lot but continual eating isn't right. Some birds will deshell seed and look like they are eating but undigested seed will conunter that theory. Now undigested seed is usually based on a digestive problem being bacteria or a viral issue but can also be biological disorder also. Now I could give you a name of a few different products that could help but it would be better to see what may be causing this as it will need a precise meds as this can go down hill very quick. You could try if you like a mixture of meds a strong wormer, coccidosis, and a antibiotic type of attack which may hit what it is or you can try the sterile intake way hoping it can bide some time for a result which would require freezing seeds before giving it and booked or distilled water with a few drops of organic apple cider vinegar. Problem is your bird has the condition of going light which is fatal and it varies in birds on how slow or quick it can take them. I have had a few birds which have had this in varied degrees but in most cases some didn't make it while others have bounced back fine. Problem was I believed that they all had the same condition but found that to be false so I did wrongly medicate some.

StarSpun sorry to hear pumpkin is still not doing good.

you did the best thing you can do and took him to the vet.

hope he gets better soon.

finchmix22 wrote: It could be a worm that the Worm Away is not killing. If you are afraid he is going down hill quicker than the vet lab results, I would give him Ronex 12 % for 7 days. The vet can prescribe this, which is metronidazole. I hope he improves!

Ahhh it's so hard to get Ronex up here in Canada:-( I have him on Cocci-Care or whatever it is called. I think it COULD be this!

Sally wrote: Here is a topic from 2010 talking about a bird that was eating nonstop. Several possibilities were mentioned in this topic.

http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8759

Thanks for the link, very interesting. I am thinking Cocci maybe!

Zebrafincher wrote: Hi StarSpun,

don't beat yourself up. The main thing is you DID take your bird to the vet, and he/she's getting treatment now. Birds are notoriously hard to diagnose and treat, and they are VERY good at covering up when they get ill. Whenever I get a new bird, it goes straight to the vet and gets wormed, anti-mited, and tested for everything else they can think of (as well as quarantine for 10 days to 2 weeks) andI only have 3 Birds!

Birds also have an extremely high metabolism and will eat LOTS and LOTS! My canary is a pig, and eats like a horse but stays slim (well technically he's a LITTLE overweight, but he's old and arthritic so that's OK apparently).

I hope Pumpkin gets better. You can only do so much. When owning birds be aware that some may die, regardless of what you do or how you love them. It doesn't mean you are a bad owner - these are delicate little birds, and they can die very easily.

I had a young Zebbie, Hughie, who died one night in his nest. He was only six months old. My vet said he probably had an existing internal malformation or issue. I was devastated at the time and though it was something I'd done, but I know from being on this forum for a period of time that many other members have had the same sad experience.

Be kind to yourself. Good luck to Pumpkin. What a sweetie.

Kind Regards

Thanks so much for the kind words! Sorry to hear about Hughie, that's so sad. It's especially sad when they are so young. When I lost Lacey my finch, she was very young. I was devastated. So far I've lost two birds this year, I can't bare to lose another! Pumpkin, ya gotta pull through! LOL!

monotwine wrote: The vet should be able to see alot in the fecal exam, fresh droppings taken that day would help show bacteria. Undigested food could be a coccidial or protozoal infection. In which case the fecal may or may not show oocysts as they shed them periodically.

This is why most of us do a quarantine preventative medication these days. Not all like doing medication as preventatives, but common ailments like Coccidiosis and parasites are around enough to consider doing just as a routine treatment to prevent it from occurring or building up in the birds environment.

With new birds, I personally treat for stress first, then depending on the bird or where I got it I follow through with deparasiting / deworming, anti-coccidial, anti-protoza and then see if anything else comes up. I don't treat for bacterial diseases unless the birds show signs of it.

Hope your baby gets diagnosed and treatment soon. In the mean time add some extra heat for him as if he is skinny and not getting nourishment, he will need it.

Very good ideas!
I think you are right about the Cocci or the protozoal. I treated them all with S76 shortly after I got them, then worm away....no it's the Cocci stuff....hopefully this works. The vet sent me home with a 'poop collector' ha ha! She said to do it for 4 or 5 days, but I don't want to wait that long. I collect every poop he does so it SHOULD show up if that is the case....I would hope?

I added some extra heat, he seems to really like it!! Thank you!

monotwine wrote: Do you have a nearby store that stocks medications / can deliver ASAP? The vet should be able to supply what you need, but it would be a good idea to know where you closest stockist is if you need anything in a rush.

I can't find anywhere here....Canada is so bad for this stuff. It's so easy when we are in the US! /

adoumski wrote: StarSpun sorry to hear pumpkin is still not doing good.

you did the best thing you can do and took him to the vet.

hope he gets better soon.

Thank you, me too!

dan78 wrote: Hello starspun, you do have a problem on your hands as finches and canaries do eat a lot but continual eating isn't right. Some birds will deshell seed and look like they are eating but undigested seed will conunter that theory. Now undigested seed is usually based on a digestive problem being bacteria or a viral issue but can also be biological disorder also. Now I could give you a name of a few different products that could help but it would be better to see what may be causing this as it will need a precise meds as this can go down hill very quick. You could try if you like a mixture of meds a strong wormer, coccidosis, and a antibiotic type of attack which may hit what it is or you can try the sterile intake way hoping it can bide some time for a result which would require freezing seeds before giving it and booked or distilled water with a few drops of organic apple cider vinegar. Problem is your bird has the condition of going light which is fatal and it varies in birds on how slow or quick it can take them. I have had a few birds which have had this in varied degrees but in most cases some didn't make it while others have bounced back fine. Problem was I believed that they all had the same condition but found that to be false so I did wrongly medicate some.

Very cool....so I have him on a Cocci treatment....gonna see how that goes. So what is this with freezing seeds? What does this too? I guess I can do the apple cider vinegar with the cocci care stuff? Thanks so much for the advice! I hope Pumpkin bounces back!!!!

So now this is interesting....is this a symptom? He ALWAYS has a messy beak, more so now then ever. I actually had to manually pry a big piece off as it was so hardened. Is this a regurgitation problem or....? Am I just paranoid?



Thanks everyone!!!!

Hope pumpkin feels better!!!!you are doing the best you can.

There is a product put out by Harrisons Bird Foods called Avian Enzyme. It is to aid digestion & helps prevent undigested seeds. Uses include birds with chronic pancreatitis, malabsorption syndrome, proventricular dilation & birds under stress & illness. I have used it. Their website is: HarrisonsBirdFoods.com Phone number for orders 800-346-0269, support 800-745-7329. email: customerservice@harrisonspetproducts.com. Their products are often carried by vets also.

StarSpun hows pumpkin doing now?

delray wrote: Hope pumpkin feels better!!!!you are doing the best you can.

Thanks Delray!

wildbird wrote: There is a product put out by Harrisons Bird Foods called Avian Enzyme. It is to aid digestion & helps prevent undigested seeds. Uses include birds with chronic pancreatitis, malabsorption syndrome, proventricular dilation & birds under stress & illness. I have used it. Their website is: HarrisonsBirdFoods.com Phone number for orders 800-346-0269, support 800-745-7329. email: customerservice@harrisonspetproducts.com. Their products are often carried by vets also.

I am trying to find this product up here, and will ask the vet if they carry it. Thank you for bringing it to my attention!

adoumski wrote: StarSpun hows pumpkin doing now?

Heya! Thanks for asking!

So, yesterday he looked great. Less puffed, more active, chirping softly, still eating lots, but his poop was way more formed with urates. When I let him out to clean his tank, he could actually FLY AND LAND where he wanted without disaster, and balance nice. This to me seemed like a HUGE change! I went to bed more hopeful.

I checked on him at night, it seemed like less tail bobbing, it barely moved actually. His breathing seemed a bit fast though, but then again I don't know how fast these guys breathe! He likes the corner of his hospital cage because there is a heat pad and it's sheltered so he perched on the food dish and put his head in his wings to sleep. I checked on him later in the night and he ended up sleeping in his bowl! Not sure if that is a bad sign of if that was just him being silly....

This morning I hear him up bouncing on his paper. It's early yet but some light is getting into his cage. I checked with a flashlight, still breathing a bit fast, but when he saw the light he took a few bites of food and looked up at me. I see him now in the dark and he is perched on the side of his food dish, I think he wants to wake up soon!

I did notice something, I'm not sure if it was my flashlight bothering him, but he seemed to twitch a lot at first, like his head, as if something was bothering him. Then a beak wipe then a twitch and so on. Now he is not doing it that I can tell. Just looked again and he is eating in the dark, LOL! Always hungry!

One more thing, I picked him up yesterday to feel how thin he was. His breast bone DOES stick out but I think there is still a slight bit of padding on either side....it doesn't feel like straight out breastbone to me, and my husband agreed. I think I will take his poop into the vet today, as I have been collecting almost every single one he's done in the last 2-3 days! I hope it is sufficient to find what we are looking for and get him back in shape. I just can't lose this little guy!

Haha, too funny, I hear him crunching away at his miracle food in the dark. Well I guess it's not very funny, as he is probably starving!!!! Poor thing!!!!

Get the freshest poop you can just before you give it to the vet. The fresher the better. LOL in the past with fecals that I needed doing I took a whole bunch of birds in the cage (non stressed types) and my vet took the poop right from out the cage to put under the microscope. Funny me walking around with a little hamster cage of birds, with no paper and lots of poop. BUT it did help to nail the problem.

I hope your vet manages to find something for you. Something you can treat easily.

Coccidiosis is a common ailment and if caught in time treatable and in the future preventable. The other head shaking thing could be a number of things.
Mites / bacterial infection / normal behavior.... one never knows. I'd lay off adding any extra meds until you have diagnosis.
Lets hope the vet can nail it on the head for you.
Best wishes for his total recovery.