Canary not eating .... Scaly feet?!

[Sandra]

Yesterday, I noticed that the water dispenser wasn't running. For so, for a period of time I don't know, the canary didn't have access to water. He didn't eat yesterday and now today too!!!

He doesn't look fluffed up and doesn't hide his head under its wing. But while I was looking at him, I noticed his feet looked scaly. Is this normal? I'm not even sure if it has always been this way or not. He's only 2-3 years old.

What to do about his not eating?

[MiaCarter]

Hi Sandra!
I think I mentioned this in my note to you, but I'd see about rubbing a bit of olive oil on his legs. That helps combat dryness.

Scaling can be a sign of scaly leg mites/tassle foot, but it's usually much more pronounced and the legs are obviously bothersome (they'll often bite at them.) This dryness looks normal for a middle-aged or older bird. It's just dead skin cells that haven't sloughed off. The oil helps infuse the legs with moisture and it helps the dead skin slough off.

Being without water can skew the electrolytes and other body chemistry, but he should recover nicely.
I'd offer his favorite foods and just give him lots of time to rest and recoup.
Adding some pedialyte to the water will help restore electrolytes. If he's not drinking well, you can use a dropper to put a bit of pedialyte on the side of his beak. That will seep into his mouth. You can do this a few times to help give him a boost.

[cindy]

if this is scaly feet the oil will not help. Our vet said not to use it.. she recommended to treat with Ivermectin 1% one drop from a syringe needle...3 treatments 14 days apart. You need to break the cycle of the mite, eggs. She does not recommend mixing it in water for the bird to drink since it does not mix well and it is not an efficient way of delivering the ivermectin.

other treatments can be found on ladygouldian.com https://ladygouldian.com/Foot-Problems

The bird may be dehydrated try what Mia suggested but if the legs do not look better and get worse you may want to consult your vet, keep us posted.

I would also use a secondary water source either a cup or water tube in case your system fails again.


birds can have scaly leg/beak for 6 months to a year before showing any signs visually on the body.

[MiaCarter]

Yes! Thanks for adding that, cindy !

Indeed, the oil won't do any good for mites. So I'd apply it a couple times, 3-4 days apart. If the oil doesn't seem to remedy the issue, then it would suggest mites.

Just rehydrating him may improve the appearance of the legs noticeably. A symptom of dehydration is dry, flaky skin.

I should have mentioned that about not using oil for mites, as I believe there is some home remedy that entails oil or petroleum jelly or something like that, with the belief that it cuts off the mite air supply. But chances of that working are remote.
Mites are super pervasive and the same mites that cause tassle foot can travel to other areas of the body. So for that sort of treatment to be effective, you would need to slather the entire bird in petroleum jelly or oil! Obviously not practical. So indeed, I don't recommend home remedies for mites or any other parasite. They can and will infest your entire flock, so best to just cut to the chase with an anti-parasitic medication like Ivermectin.

As Cindy mentioned, there are some meds that claim to cure tassle foot via drinking water. But they're just not effective because the dry, dead skin is not perfused by the drug.

You could even give his nails a little trim while you have him out for the oil treatment.
Just get a bit of corn starch or styptic powder in case you clip too short. Human nail clippers are usually the right size for finches and canaries.

[cindy]

Mia ... the vet said not to use anything on the legs in the way of oils to "suffocate" the mites....it is not a long term fix not is it as effective as the topical ivermectin. It must be done 3 treatments 14 days apart to break the mite/egg cycle. The skin as dry as it may look will flake away. Also during the first few days after each treatment do not allow the bird to bathe.

It is also advisable not to use petroleum jelly or based products on your birds... ingested it can cause issues, if it gets into the feathers it can also become problematic.

[Sandra]

My canary is back to normal! He's back to being active, singing, eating and taking baths!!!

Feet looks same. Wouldn't he peck at his feet or show any signs if it was mites?

I don't have a 'flock' My canary is alone in his cage. He's a 'family' bird. So if he got mites, I have no heck of a clue how it got here as I keep things clean. I've had my canary since June and he's 2-3 years old now.

[cindy]

Re: mites.... the beak and feet species of mites is different than the feather mites....you would see more of a visual sign first before a reaction to them.... as I mentioned earlier they can have them up 6 months to a year before you start seeing signs of them.

These are a few pictures of scaly beak and feet. I would contact either your vet or Terri @ Glamorous Gouldians she sells product and can ship you a treatment if needed. Can you get a really good, clear close up picture of the feet, it would help if we saw if in more detail.

[Sandra]

What should I do? I'm really NOT familiar with mites and I have no clue how this happened (if its mites). Not like I take my birds outside or I keep them in filthy conditions.

My canary is alone in his cage but I really don't want this to reach my other cage with my 2 gouldians.

[cindy]

Birds can get this and have it for some time 6 months to a year before you see it visually)...parent birds can pass it to their young. They have it long before you visually see it. I has nothing to do with cleanliness, the mites live and burrow in the skin.

You can buy birds, the legs look great then 6 month later the feet look scaly...it takes that long to show. https://ladygouldian.com/Foot-Problems

Scaly feet and beak is not going to effect your other birds in cages that are apart from each other, it is only passed by direct contact. It is not like feather mites that travel and hide in nooks and crannies. It is fairly easy to get rid of.

Contact Terri at glamorousgouldians.com and she can send you medication to treat the birds with. Clean your cage as you normally do. I mentioned ivermectin a few responses back.

[lovezebs]

Sandra

Hi.
Is your boy drinking? To me, at this stage, that would be a big concern. How long has he not been eating?

If he's not eating or drinking, I would consider this an emergency, and get him to the Vet , because this could be a life and death situation.

If however he is drinking, I would tempt him with some spray millet, fresh grated hard boiled egg, and some fresh chopped cucumber, romaine and carrot greens, or whichever else are his favorite foods.

The dry skin on the legs (in my opinion) is secondary, to the fact that he isn't eating and or drinking.

Offer him a daily bath, with some nice luke warm water and see how he does. At two or three years old, he is an adult, but still a young bird. It could be just dry skin, if you have low humidity in your house, but I would keep an eye on it, to see if it's bothering him in any way.
Please let us know how he's doing, and always have an extra source of water available , which should be checked on a daily basis.

Good luck.

~Elana~

[MiaCarter]

cindy -- Agreed!
I definitely wouldn't recommend *any* home remedy for mites or parasites. I've seen how difficult it is to kill parasites with pesticides like Ivermectin and even then it's difficult!
They're just so pervasive that it would be virtually impossible to kill all of them and the eggs.
Plus, can you imagine the logistical nightmare of trying to cleanse something like petroleum jelly off a bird's feathers?
Agh! I don't even want to think of it!! LOL
I mean, have you ever tried to get petroleum jelly out of your hair? It's a nightmare! And a bird's feathers are several times finer. It would be awful. Just awful. It would be tremendous stress. Plus any oil in the feathers eliminates their ability to stay warm. It would just be a fright.

Indeed, Ivermectin is *definitely* the way to go!

Sandra --- I'm SO happy to hear that Buddy is back to normal! This is great news!
Sounds like he just needed some time for his levels to normalize. Being without fluids can skew their body chemistry, but it sounds like he recovered nicely! Great news!

As for the potential of mites, if you just got him in June, it's definitely possible it's mites.

I don't like using pesticides unnecessarily, so I would apply some olive oil and rub it into his legs to see if it's just a moisture issue. I'd do it 2-3 times within a week. He'll show a marked improvement if it's a moisture issue.
I know you live in Canada, so you have indoor heat which can be super drying, especially forced hot air. Plus, he just had a dehydration incident which would make any dryness more pronounced. Both could make his legs look dryer than normal.

If, at the end of 7-10 days, it's not looking any better OR it begins to look worse, I would assume mites and treat for them.

With mites, you'll see a fair amount of picking and biting at the legs.
You'll also see areas of redness and even infection from that biting and picking.
But if he's just starting to show symptoms it may not be to that point yet where they're bothersome.

I think you can afford to take a conservative wait and see approach since he's alone in his cage. This is a mite type that requires direct contact for transmission, as Cindy explained. But you don't want to wait too long as this mite type can travel to other parts of body, like the beak. So after treating his legs topically, you may want to do an internal treatment a week or two after (whatever the recommended re-treatment period is.)

Plus, waiting will give his body time to fully recover from the dehydration incident. Make no mistake: pesticides are poisons, just at a level that won't kill the bird. But it can still stress their system. So better to wait until he's 100% before you try to treat.

I would DEFINITELY remove any bathing areas if you opt to treat. You don't want the ivermectin washing off and getting in water he may drink.

I'd also make sure you wash your hands thoroughly after handling Buddy and any Ivermectin products, particularly before handling Kiki. You'll also want to ensure that Kiki stays clear of Buddy until mites are ruled out or treated. Once she starts flying, she'll make a beeline for other birds!
(Kiki is Sandra's adorable little handraised gouldian baby! Sandra, you should post a thread with photos! I can make up an age progression photo spread for you too! I've got tons in messages, but if you have better ones, send me some good photos - ideally one from each day of life and I'll make up something for you!)

[Sandra]

Elana: Buddy is back to normal. The water didn't run for him. I gave half half electrolyte water and tap water. Took 2 days for him to slowly go back to normal.

Mia, yeah, I have to check if its a dryness problem first. But also could be a early mite problem as his feet isn't bothering him at all. He doesn't bite at it.

All of Kiki's pics are numbered by date. Will be easy for me to set up something. As I thought she wouldn't survive, I have not early pics of her She's fully feathered now ... So she wont have much changes from here until she can reach her first moult.