When to check or remove eggs

[Animalzoo]

Jamm972

I wondered the same question about the juveniles as well. I have 2 who have started to show signs of singing, one was my very first baby who is about 1-2 weeks older than the others and from what I feel started to learn to sign quite quickly. The other baby who has started seemed to take ages to make any squeaking noises. None of the others are trying so either they are girls or just slow to start. I don't know when the juveniles have their first molt but I assume it'll be soon as none have taken on any of their parents depth of red or orange (yet).

I've decided to choose what ones to keep when the season is over. I'll be able to determine gender and see their full colours better by the time we reach the summer. I don't want to keep many but I do want the best birds. I assume breeders all over do this so by the time I come to buy some later in the year I know everyone buys the seconds.

Regardless though I will be keeping one of the red eyes as these are rare and the male only successfully bred with his female once before she died.

You said one of Blanca's babies has dark skin. Who was she paired with before Zorro. What colour is Zorro, isn't he a red? Skin colour is just to do with their colour. So my darker red birds always have darker skin babies but the lighter feathers have pink skin. Jack and Jill are white/red mosiacs and their babies were all pink but scully and lucky have dark skin babies and they have taken on the darker feathers. it's normal, don't worry. Also the bigger one is just by luck. Did they all hatch on the same day or one day apart. If one just happens to be fed more than the others then it'll grow at that pace but in time they will all catch up. Just keep an eye on it as you dont want one suffering.

Noname and Stud are the same as my Romeo and Juliet. Mine have 1 baby too and none of the others hatched. This was their 2nd round too after 3 successful babies before so I'm surprised they only managed 1 but heyho. As long as it's healthy and happy. Noname won't leave her baby, just poke her off and she'll go back eventually.

Tails makes me laugh. She must have just taken time to settle and get her hormones into gear so she is showing what she is capable of. Its great news so good luck with those.

Can you move Blanca and Zorro's water bowl to a different location. Mine bath in the baths I give them and the water becomes a little grimy but not as bad as what you have described unless I place the bowls under a perch or near the seed trays. I also only put baths in every other day. They have drinking bottles on the side of the cage all the time though.

Sonny and Cher have laid 3 eggs and I've waited patiently but she's not putting any more down. Today I'll swap the fakes for her real ones and start counting 14 days from today. It's funny as she only laid 2 eggs the last time. She's obviously not a massive egg layer.

Scully's 3 babies all fledged yesterday. I had given her the 2nd nest but she still hadn't started to build it. Typically the babies began to sit and poop in the new nest. I took out the original one and was going to take out the 2nd one but decided not to. I need Scully to crack on as I have (for the 1st time) watched her and Lucky mating. If the babies keep sitting on the side of the new nest I'll divide them but I don't fancy separating Lucky until she starts laying eggs. I want her to be as full of Lucky as much as possible (if you know what I mean).

Otherwise no more news my end.

Bye for now.

[Bahadir]

Hello Animalzoo and Jamm972

Your pictures are very nice Animalzoo, strong and happy birds. You have a lot of genetical choices for next breeding season, keep the best birds as which birds have characther you want to have. Trade others for new equipments and birds. After 3-4 years, you will have your own blood-line. It will be your selection and improvement.

Today, i have just checked the nest of my canaries. They had 5 eggs. I hope they are fertiles in this round. Finchs have 5 eggs too. If all of the eggs are fertile, I need more cages and space in next month.

[Jamm972]

Animalzoo I don't supply a separate bathing bowl for the canaries cause they never tend to use it when I put it down. So I just chance the water bowls daily and they pick and choose which day to take a bath.

As far as your eggs layers. I found out that if they don't lay at least 4 eggs its because they didn't fancy the cuttle bone and they didn't have enough egg shell in the egg food to munch on. Also their diet and how much egg you feed them will determine how many clutches they will try. this explains why Whitey and Donald are so persistent on going another round. Technically this is there 5th attempt. After this clutch I am going to remove the cuttle bone, and only feed them egg food without the egg shell. Also I will attempt to separate Donald and Whitey once the last clutch reaches 14 days old. I will leave Dad with the babies to finish raising them and move mom to the community cage. All females will go in the community cage, but the males I'm a little iffy about because I don't want them fighting with other males, but do want them to get some exercise. So putting them in a small loner cage is not such a good idea. As a matter of fact Toopay is molting so I might put him in the community cage for the time being and move him back into his own Solo cage after a month. I want him to get some exercise because he does look a little pudgy.

So everything is still a learning experience as I go along. I might buy some more flight cages so I can accommodate all the males. Not to concerned about the conformed females.

I had an accident this morning with one of the babies. Their band got caught in a paper clip I use to hold nesting material. the baby was hurt and was bleeding. Other half removed the paper clip that was stuck but noticed some blood. I have been observing the baby he/she seems fine buy is now only standing on the 1 leg. I'm hoping this is only so it can self heal like you and me would do if we sprained our ankle. I'm going to give it about 4 days. If the baby still shows signs of stress and not wanting to use the leg I will bite the expense and take the baby to the vet to have em checked out. I wouldn't be a good breeder if I did not do so. I have now named this baby Limp. Not to sound cruel but Whitey, Blanca, Moon are already taken and didn't know what else to call em. So the baby named his/her self because of the outcome of the accident. I did name another baby Coco. this is because is has a marshmallow and coco look. Will try to take a picture when I can.

Blancas babies keep falling out of the nest so I finally took a different nest put a little bit of cotton around the bottom and sides and and put the babes into that nest and swapped it out. I was starting to get afraid that one of the babies will get hurt from the fall.
Just checked the leg on the baby. it is broken and will need to be examined. so I will get back to you when I can.

[Jamm972]

Animalzoo So it is confirmed the babies leg is broken. The vet bill cost me 165.00 American $. Not sure what that is in your currency. I understand that's more than the bird is worth but who can put a price on a life regardless of its form. We now officially named the baby Money. lol To me that kind of is a bad name but in the process it sort of fits because it is the first baby that cost us money to maintain and keep alive. You know what if it survives it is worth every penny.

So here is the scoop, there is a 50/50 chance they may or may not have to amputate the leg. the bone broke through the skin. The vet says that normally this would cause for amputation but because the baby is still so young she wants to try and save it, and that if it wasn't savable we would have to pay to have it amputated later on. The amputation sounds hurtful but she explained that it is less painful then when the canary broke her leg in the first place. Please keep in your prayers that Money's foot/leg can be saved and fixed. We will know more in about 2 weeks. Good signs are Money is eating from her parents. They wanted me to put her in a 10 gallon fish tank so she would stay put at the bottom of the floor and not try to fly and perch herself. So instead I put wash clothes throughout the floor of the breeder cage so money wont slip through the bars. and I removed both regular perches. I had a plastic perch from an old cage and cut it to a really small size so mom and dad can still feed Money's siblings on the other side of the cage. This is a start but because Ms. Whitey is starting her final clutch I cant separate her from Donald because Donald is not only feeding the juveniles but feeds her when she starts sitting. now they also have to feed Money who is now housed on their side of the cage so Money can have more attentions and TLC.

I have officially became a breeder the Vet said. She apologized on meeting me under the circumstances but stated that Money is very healthy and strong, perfect weight, size, and feathers looked 100% and up to par. She said whatever it is I am doing to keep doing. She also stated that breeders do come a crossed a crises from time to time and some usually look the other way. She stated that because I took a 3 week old canary to the vet and paid more that what I paid for both mom and dad shows that I have potential. They made me feel really good. Like I said I'm in this for the hobby, Yes making money on the side is also good but it is not a priority. When I rehome my babies I would love to make sure they go to a good home and family that will take care of them. I wont give the buyer a 3rd degree but will ask them a few questions before finalizing their purchase.

The way I look at it is yes Money cost me money, but karma will come back to me in a good way, somehow, some where.

Moneys Sibling's are wondering why he/she is housed with mom and dad and they aren't. But Whitey and Donald knew right away why. They knew something wasn't right and went wrong, but also know when she disappeared and returned it was for a good reason. most PetSmart Animal's know the routine.

Well that's my adventure and story today. Fingers crossed for Money for me.

P.S. Blanca's babies are no longer falling out of the new man made nest. I had to remove all the nesting stuff and only put a little bit of cotton in at the bottom of the wicker nest. this now gave them enough room to move around and get comfortable. I think you were right about the darker baby. I think it will take after the dad. I believe the best way to explain it is Zorro carries the Cinnamon Mutated Gene. I am going to check back with the breeder to see if that was the case. But all I can recall is Zorro is a variegated canary. Question is Variegated to what? lol Guess we will see.

Talk soon. Hope all is well with you 2

[Sheather]

animalzoo I really love your photos, what a beautiful collection you have. Scully is gorgeous oh my gosh, I love her color.

I wish I could keep my juveniles in one large flight but I've realized I'm working with a very aggressive line of canaries. Dad and mom don't get along without supervision, as he tends to randomly go after her, and their kids all became so aggressive with each other by just six weeks old that I've had to house them all in individual flights. With four new chicks set to fledge any day now, that meant ordering four more cages, because if they're anything like their older siblings they won't be amicable together for too long once they're weaned.

[Jamm972]

Sheather Yeah I read up on that behavior. There is only 1 way to break up that behavior. But would require finding another blood line that is not as aggressive. Here is what I read and they suggested. You would pair up a flighted canary with an un flighted canary. Meaning 1 has experience with Breeding and the other does not. When brining in a new blood line if you can successfully pair up with your own blood line you will have a 50/50 chance of the parents teaching them the good ways. It is also time consuming and have to have patients because you basically have to wait a year and keep canaries from the new blood line to see if they inherited the good or bad behavior. Eventually if you only breed the good behavior it will eventually be adopted into your Bloodline and the aggressive behavior will become slim to none in the new babies. I will try to see where I read this information at and send you the link. but I found the reading material very helpful and useful this year so far. So far the only really bad behavior I have observed with my blood line thus far for being my first year is by only 1 pair. They were purchased from the same breeder and their hygiene isn't the greatest. they poop and do whatever in their water dishes. I have to change the water every day regardless if I supply them a bathtub to wash up in. I'm not sure how they do it but compared to the others for just 1 day the water dishes look and smell like they were there for 3 to 4 days. Yuck . I am thinking of going to a twice a day water change in hopes of it breaking there hygiene habit. I just think its just how they were raised in a community aviary.

[Animalzoo]

Jamm972
Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

Well, life took hold for a few days there, between me being ill, our staff being ill and having to cover them, machinery failing at work and having to stress over that and everything else that happens in life I havent even picked up my laptop in 4 days.........well apart to download and watch Game of Thrones yesterday morning hahaha!!

I've not got much of an update. No births, deaths or marriages lol

Literally though, I've not been expecting any to hatch. Cher's eggs still have another 5 days. I haven't candled them as yet and she isn't leaving that nest for anything!

Juliets single little baby will be gorgeous. His/her feathers are coming through and he's a great mixture of both parents. He is now 13 days old and yesterday I realised how old he is, went to ring in and doh! his leg is too big for the band. So as my boyfriend said, that one is a keeper That's how it's been for the past few days in my household though. We've made sure the birds have food, water and eggs but otherwise our time has been very short with them.

Scully hasnt built her 2nd nest Her 3 fledged babies are divided. I did that back on Friday leaving Lucky with her. They are both happily feeding the babies through the bars. I've experimented with a new nest type. Its wider, but I didn't put in the little felt cup. I used some kitchen paper but for what ever reason she hasn't taken to it. If she doesn't do anything today I'll swap back for the plastic white bowls I've used before.

Thats it then. The flight cage is still peaceful and everyone is healthy and happy.

I've lost tack with yours! Your birds were slow to start but BOOM......babies babies babies. Whats the latest?

[Animalzoo]

Sheather

Thanks! As you can see all my birds are in the red collection. Between the red agates and red mosaics I'm yet to explore other colours. I like yours and will get myself something like that with yellows and whites. Mulder who you can see in my pictures is grey/white and I'd like to try to mix him with a yellow to achieve yellow/greys.

Then similar to Jamm972 I want a crested head Gloster to breed with. I'll get a pair to keep them pure Glosters, one normal one crested. Next year I'll likely end up with 8 breeding pairs. My boyfriend and I share responsibility and by the time next season starts we plan to have a better setup with better breeding cages and we'll cut back on our other breeding birds too.

We recently registered with a local bird society and in November there is a show we can go to so can discuss tips and details with breeders and buy through those sources as opposed to pet shops. It'll be a busy busy time!

[Jamm972]

Animalzoo Hello good to hear from you. I to have been busy with things at home and having my friend move back in was a new adjustment. Yes babies babies and babies galore.

I had 1 baby break his/her leg so he/she will be a keeper because I have money invested in em. He/she now named Money is a Dominent White canary. Takes after her mother (Ms. Whitey). She is still housed with Mom and Dad until the cast comes off because I don't feel she cant yet fully feed herself do to the disability. I am hoping her foot wont have to be cut off so she can carry on a more normal life and adjust to only having 1 leg. As of right now its looking good. She is active no swelling and looks like no infection. I'm hoping she will gain full movement with her foot but wont know until her cast comes off in another 3 to 4 weeks.

Ms. Whitey and Donald are on there last and final clutch for the season. This will make 3 total of 5 attempts. This last clutch she only laid 3 eggs I thihnk she is saying I'm done and tired and this is it. Yes...........lol

Blanca and Zorro are finishing up on there 2nd clutch and I just put in the new nest to see if they want to go for a 3rd clutch. But I aint pushing it. So far they are now fighting so I don't think its a go ahead. So I will prolly remove Zorro in a few days if Blanca don't start to build a nest.

Noname and Stud had 1 baby hatch out of the 3 eggs. She is going to be a beautiful red factor after I color feed them for the season just in time for the molt. I will go into that more in a bit.
I'm going to try fpr a 2nd clutch with Noname and Stud in hopes its not to late in the season if it works great if not I'm still happy because they successfully paired up.

Orangie and Tails have 4 babies out of 5. And they all will carry the redfactor gene. So I will be making a redfactor flight cage so I can color feed in time for the molt. I also will try to give them a 2nd nest in hopes they will go for a 2nd clutch. Samer thing if so yes, if not who cares lol I have to many already, so not pushing it.

Flight cage is ding great, I have Yellow, Toopay and all the Juviniles in the same cage. Toopay however is weak, he cant fly to the top perch, I'm not sure if this is because he is molting or if he is really sick and old. He has always been housed in Small to medium sized cages so never really had a chance to fly. I'm hoping because I am learning a lot more about canaries that this year in the summer he will get a lot of exercise and I will try to pair him up with Yellow next year. Fingers crossed.

Right now I am up to a total of 28 canaries. Feeling overwhelmed and am now at the point where its time to sell. I askled my partner to help me pick and choose who we are keeping. but as of right now half of them have to go. Will try selling Privately/personally. but after a month of advertisement I will head to the pet store and ask for 50/50 store credit and cash. But they don't give as much as I would get selling privately.

Now onto MOLTING.
The juviniles will molt the same time as the adults. Its all about summertime and preparing for the next season. They all should molt just before September in time for the bird shows. Give or take a month.

that's my update for now. I'm so ready for next year but also cant wait to take a break. lol

Talk soon stay in touch.

[Sally]

Jamm972 You might want to look into getting a table at a mart. Easier than trying to sell from home, and more profitable than trying to deal with pet shops. This one is June 19 in Phoenix.

http://www.arizonabirdexpo.com/

[Jamm972]

Sally thanks so much for this information. I missed the last 2 Bird shows/events in the area. I am definently planning on going and or getting a table for this event. I just sent them an email asking for more information.

[Animalzoo]

Jamm972

I still can't believe one of the babies broke their leg. The poor thing and to have a cast on as well. Just the image of that makes me giggle, but you're right, better a cast than to have the leg amputated. All the best of luck on a speedy recovery!

As Sally has mentioned a stand at a mart sounds like a great idea. We don't have those sorts of things here, we do have weekly markets but it's not the place to have a bird stand.

In fact today I sold one canary privately to someone I know through my parents. It's a baby from Jack and Jill's first clutch. It was a particularly beautiful bird and one I would have kept had it have been a female but he's been learning to sing and she wanted a male for the song.

That's left me with 10 babies in the flight cage. I moved Scully's 3 fledged babies in there yesterday as they were weaned and she's now FINALLY started to build her next nest. Then Romeo and Juliet's one little baby has fledged but isn't weaned yet so I'm just waiting on that little one to be done. I'm not going to add them another nest for the time being. I want to start to wind things down.

Sonny and Chers 3 eggs are around 10 days old. I need to candle them to know what I've got there but shes sitting tight and doing a good job. If they are not fertilised I'll retire them for the year. If they are fertile thats good but it'll be their last round.

If Scully and Lucky get on with it they will be the last babies for the year. At the mo I have 18 total birds, babies and adults with 3 eggs and another nest to come. I may finish with 22 or 23.

I'll happily sell through pet shops to get them away if needed but will wait for later in the year when I can sex them.

Interestingly we spoke to the man who had registered us with our local bird society and we showed him some pictures of some of our babies. He said they were no good for showing. He said they are mixed up with colours and types so to show them we need to find pure colours and keep the same colour to the same colour. When we pick the babies for next year, we need to be precise with our selections. We'll definitely go in November to the show and learn much more than what we know now.

[Jamm972]

Animalzoo don't let anybody tell you that because a bird has multiple colors they cant be in a show. I agree go to the bird show and see what is entered . that's if you want to compete. Right now I'm not interested in competeting I'm just interested in learning what I can. As far as Toopay I know he came from champion breeders from champion bords. that's why I paid so much for him when I got him. and from what I recall the parents were of multi color as well. Maybe he was just referring to creating and making a unique blood line of your own by breeding like with like. I know for a fact you cvant breed a Dominent white with a dominant white it leads to almost 100% death to the babies. Same rule applies to Crested canaries. You would need to pair up a verigated with a Dominent or something like that. ALso same applies to a soft and or hard feathered . Still new to me and learning.

I'm thinking about Donald and Whitey. So far they have done 2 clutches and 2 of them came out crested and look exzactly alike. Ao I might have a good blood line here to start out with.

I still haven't decided what to go with for my specialty as a breeder. To breed crested canaries and or breed red factors and Dominent/ Verigated White canaries.

Noname and Stud just built there 2nd nest and are readying for round 2. Blanca who is a day ahead is ready for round 3 for her. Blanca and Zorro are a tough call thje breeder I bought them from breed's year round so not sure when Blanca and Zorro will want to call it quits but I'm calling it for them after this 3rd clutch.

Lost my cell phone yesterday and or it was stolen. So I am having a minor financial set back. Even though I don't want to I am forced to pick a few canaries and sell them so I can make up for what I paid on Money's vert bill and have to come up with $200 to replace my cell phone. That's my life line and I feel so lost without it. I am hoping its still somewhere in the house and will reappear within the next 24 hours. But I looked top and bottom and in drawers I haven't been in for months. Nothing turned up.

Really was hoping I didn't have to pick and choose who to part with and was hoping that nature would decide when it came to sexing and pairing up for next year.

Already the juviniles have shown signs or likeness towards another bird. So I am hoping that its a sign of Male and female pairings for next year. They are kissing, as well as sleeping next to each other at night time.

That's my update for now. Will let yiu know how these next 2 clutches go.

[Animalzoo]

Jamm972 Oh no, have you found the cell yet? You never know, having to sell some of the babies maybe a blessing in disguise as you have done rather well from this season.

How is the one with the broken leg doing?

So there have been big changes my end. On Tuesday my boyfriend was insistent on changing the setup and splitting the adults up.

T refefresh, Sonny and Cher were incubating 3 eggs. I candled again and they were not fertile so I pulled the nest and stopped them for the season.

Sad news re. Romeo and Juliets one baby....it died! I have no idea why but it stopped eating. Both parents were trying to feed it but it stopped accepting food. By the end of the day on Tuesday evening it was fluffed up with eyes closed doing nothing on the floor. So I'v stopped this couple as well.

This left Scully who was building her nest. I decided she was ready to drop eggs so I have left her alone and viola! she has laid 2 so far. But I have taken Lucky away so if these are fertile she'll be doing the job alone.

Now, I tried to do some research and it's hard to determine what we do now at this time of the year for the end of breeding. I have put all the girls, apart from Scully of course in the flight cage with all the babies.

I have moved all the boys to their own individual cage. They have an entire breeding cage to themselves so space to fly and get exercise. They are also in another room away from the girls, all stacked so they can't see another canary. I want to encourage them back to singing now. In addition to the adults, the very first baby I had of the season turned out to be a boy so I have also put him in his own cage so he can hear the other males and learn to sing.

So my season is at an end apart from Scully and what ever luck I have from her. Her male Lucky is my friends bird so we're giving him back now. That leaves me with 5 males in single cages and 2 adult females in the flight cage along with 9 babies still yet unsexed. Then Scully in her cage alone on eggs.

The relief I feel at this stage is high. It's amazing how much energy it takes out of you to keep all the breeding couples when its go go go. Are yours any close to finishing up?

[Jamm972]

StarLord4369 here is mine and Animalzoo topic on eggs and our journey. Feel free to ask us anything.