Leaning and shaking canary

[Jamm972]

Hello I have a juvenile canary and it is constantly leaning to 1 side. And it shakes/tremors alot. Last week the canary had a lot of bird poop build up in the hoo hoo area. I cleaned with a cotton ball and warm water. The canary was showing these signs then as well. Does anybody know what might be going on.

The juvenile is eating and drinking normal, but is slow in the cage. I separated him from the other canaries in case it was sick but I'm going on 1 week and it still is eating but showing the same signs of leaning and shaking. The bird poop hasn't come back though, it has been poopinion normally.

Any advice on what it might be and or what to do?

[Jamm972]

Only possibility I can think of is its in a molt and don't understand what it's going through. But I don't see any new apparent feather loss.

[cindy]

If you have an avian vet you may want to have them run a dropping culture/slide to be on the safe side due to the tremors and dropping on the vent area. What color are the droppings? When you caught the bird up did the bird feel thin?

Cocci if it gets to the brain can cause some neurological issues, it can cause some tremors. If cocci you may need to treat your other birds.

[Stuart whiting]

If the bird has coccidiosis and you've already seen these systems the chances are it's already to late

It won't make any difference wheather you treat the other birds or not as it's not contagious,

It's really only young birds that get coccidiosis from the time the birds have fledged to the time they moult,

Adult birds don't get it as their already immune to it,

Certain birds are more prone to getting this waisting disease than others but most breeders that I know of especially British and European birds would use a sulphur drug in the birds water as soon as the youngsters have fledged

[cindy]

that is untrue..adult birds can get cocci over and over again if the environment is not clean or new birds are introduced that carry, it is shed through feces.

[cindy]

If you do not have a vet I suggest getting ronivet S 12% (6% is not strong enough) and mixing it with trisulfa..... you can purchase both at glamgouldians.com. You will likely need to treat your entire flock. We see cocci in adult birds and young birds on our group pages. Adult hookbills can also get it. It is not limited just to young birds.

Coccia is a parasite Can be passed from bird to bird) not a virus....it is treatable.

Contact Terri at glamgouldians.com, there is an email address...she helps on our groups with ill birds, she is very good. She also is a member here.

[Sally]

cindy Why is trisulfa mixed with the Ronivet? Why an antibiotic, when coccidiosis is a parasitic condition? I don't understand the use of an antibiotic, when they are for bacterial infections.

[cindy]

cindy Why is trisulfa mixed with the Ronivet? Why an antibiotic, when coccidiosis is a parasitic condition? I don't understand the use of an antibiotic, when they are for bacterial infections.

Sally we have been working with a vet trained avian specialist and Terri on my groups. We are seeing a lot of birds with secondary infection in their bellies (we get belly pictures, dropping pictures evaluated by three trained people, they know what to look for in the bellies). Often when a bird has protozoa, parasites, coccidia for example they also can have secondary bacterial issues. Ronex cover the protozoa and parasites, the tri sulfa covers bacteria and coccia... it is extremely gentle on the birds system and is safe to use with young babies. Our trained/knowledgeable people recommend the mix often. If the bird also is showing signs of yeast we often recommend to treat with nystatin or medistatin to the beak. Birds in a very weaken state can have yeast and fungal develop.

If using baytril for example... Baytril can often cause fungal and yeast to start while the antibiotic is curing what it needs to.... so we often recommend if using baytril to also beak dose with nystatin or medistatin to keep the yeast and fungal at bay.

[debbie276]

When you say "seeing" your going off of pictures right?
For clarification, these "vet trained avian specialists" are not vets and/or may not have had any formal vet education, right?
Just curious how you are positively diagnosing without any hands on exams and/or lab and microscope results

[cindy]

They have experience, trained and taught what to look and recognize in the bellies and droppings as well as under the microscope. We always, always recommend an avian vet first.

Also keep in mind that often doing a slide of droppings may not show the issue in just one slide, you may need multiple dropping samples from different times of the day. The often do not shed the parasite every single time they pass a dropping.

I do need to add baytril should never be used on young baby birds under 21 day.

There are signs in the belly that will tell you if it is yeast, fat, liver, infection, etc, same with droppings.

There are a few sites as well on the internet that discuss droppings and signs of illness as well as other sites that sell medications and treatments that also discuss illness.

[debbie276]

I'm just not sure everyone has the same opinion, for example "he seems light", "the droppings are too large and wet". How do you know that it is so and not just someone not experienced with those birds.
Pictures especially for average people are not the best in quality of clearness or color. And certainly those that are contacting you online are not giving you a fecal sample.
Internet diagnoses can be a very dangerous thing especially not coming from a physical exam and a vet.
JMO

[cindy]

We are very specific when we ask for pictures and typically have no problem seeing what to look for in either the droppings or belly.

Not everyone has access to an avian vet, so we try to help. Better than letting the bird get worse or die.

[Sally]

The problem that I have is that over-the-counter antibiotics are not as strong as what a vet can prescribe, but they may be enough to build up an antibiotic resistance in the bird. So a bird that has been given OTC antibiotics, especially when someone doesn't really know what is going on with the bird, will not be able to be treated properly by a prescribed antibiotic if ever needed. Is it always the exact same bacteria that attack a bird during/after treatment for coccidiosis? My understanding is that different bacterial infections require different treatments, and giving the wrong antibiotic can actually be worse than no antibiotic at all.

I personally don't feel that anyone can determine exactly what is wrong with a bird simply by photos or descriptions. Even avian vets don't always know what is going on, so how can anyone who doesn't have that level of training or access to lab tests and other diagnostic tools make an accurate diagnosis?

[Sally]

If the bird has coccidiosis and you've already seen these systems the chances are it's already to late

It won't make any difference wheather you treat the other birds or not as it's not contagious,

It's really only young birds that get coccidiosis from the time the birds have fledged to the time they moult,

Adult birds don't get it as their already immune to it,

Certain birds are more prone to getting this waisting disease than others but most breeders that I know of especially British and European birds would use a sulphur drug in the birds water as soon as the youngsters have fledged

Actually, Cindy is correct, this condition is quite contagious, as it is a parasitic condition that can be spread in the droppings, or even by parents feeding young, but it can affect birds of any age.

[Stuart whiting]

The problem that I have is that over-the-counter antibiotics are not as strong as what a vet can prescribe, but they may be enough to build up an antibiotic resistance in the bird. So a bird that has been given OTC antibiotics, especially when someone doesn't really know what is going on with the bird, will not be able to be treated properly by a prescribed antibiotic if ever needed. Is it always the exact same bacteria that attack a bird during/after treatment for coccidiosis? My understanding is that different bacterial infections require different treatments, and giving the wrong antibiotic can actually be worse than no antibiotic at all.

I personally don't feel that anyone can determine exactly what is wrong with a bird simply by photos or descriptions. Even avian vets don't always know what is going on, so how can anyone who doesn't have that level of training or access to lab tests and other diagnostic tools make an accurate diagnosis?

Very true Sally, quite agree