Bumblefoot and head plucking!

[MisterGribs]

My little coturnix hen has gotten a case of bumblefoot. She is housed in a large rabbit cage on newspaper bedding about a whole paper thick. The bedding is changed daily, any wet bedding is discarded as soon as I see it.

I was hoping the newspaper would be soft and easy on her feet, but apparently it's not soft enough! What else can I use? I have seen others using sand, but wouldn't this be worse than newspaper?

Is aspen/wood shavings acceptable? Would they eat the shavings, and get an impaction? Should I be shredding the newspaper? Her poor little feet are as soft as a baby's, I am at a loss.

As for the head plucking, my rooster is overly amorous. We have them separated right now and I keep both their beaks filed. They both hate being apart from one another, but Diglett has a bald patch from him grabbing her and holding on while she struggles to get away. I have tried a hen-saver, but as he grabs her head and not her back, it was of no use to me. If anyone has any advice on how to handle this problem without separating them or debeaking, caponizing or in any way mutilating the rooster, I would be very grateful.

I absolutely love the rooster, he is my dearest friend, and sending him to freezer camp is not an option.

[lovezebs]

Freezer Camp???

[lovezebs]

Bumble foot can get pretty serious, if not treated. I lost a little Waxbill some years ago to a case of it that became infected.

Not sure what stuff would be soft enough for her little feet...
Maybe puppy training pads, which are usually pretty soft.

Regarding your amorous bully...
Can you rub a tiny bit of bitter apple spray on her head, maybe the taste will disuade him from pulling out her top knot. Other than that, all I can think anbout is a little bonnet which Heta could make for her.

https://goo.gl/images/hbKiyS

[MisterGribs]

Bumble foot can get pretty serious, if not treated. I lost a little Waxbill some years ago to a case of it that became infected.

Not sure what stuff would be soft enough for her little feet...
Maybe puppy training pads, which are usually pretty soft.

Regarding your amorous bully...
Can you rub a tiny bit of bitter apple spray on her head, maybe the taste will disuade him from pulling out her top knot. Other than that, all I can think anbout is a little bonnet which Heta could make for her.

https://goo.gl/images/hbKiyS

I hate the bumblefoot, I spotted it instantly before it could get any bigger than a millet seed and removed it at once. It takes forever to heal though and daily soaking, but luckily she loves hot water and turns into butter while we watch TV together. She'll let me soak her for an hour or more without moving, she's great.

''Freezer camp'' is what some so-called chicken and quail enthusiasts use to refer to culling the animal, and I'm too aware that this is an immediate go-to solution for issues involving roosters. It's been the answer in every advice article I've read about over-amorous roosters so far.

I've thought about the bonnet actually, lol. I wonder how well she would tolerate it, and how to have it loose enough not to hurt her, but tight enough for Hulahulabarb not to rip it off of her?

I wonder if bitter apple spray would work on roosters since their tongue isn't really involved in the grabbing process and he might not taste it.. Worth a try, I suppose!

Or what about a cone of shame??

The puppy training pads are a really good idea!! We've just been using scrap fabric and toilet paper, but I think I'm going to sit down with our scrap newspaper (I save every bit of junk mail I get for this purpose, lol) and cut it into very small shavings. Hopefully this will soften it up. I sure wish I had a paper shredder.

[lovezebs]

MisterGribs

Glad to hear that your girlie is getting better and enjoying her treatments.

Did you want to try some puppy pads for her footsies? I'm sure we could get some to you if you wanted to try them. Let me know.

As for your boy, can he be neutered?
I know it sounds a little nuts, but can it be done?

Otherwise, it will have to be a bonnet or bitter apple spray, or the cone of shame on your poor girl, or a muzzle for your boy, lol.

[MisterGribs]

MisterGribs

Glad to hear that your girlie is getting better and enjoying her treatments.

Did you want to try some puppy pads for her footsies? I'm sure we could get some to you if you wanted to try them. Let me know.

As for your boy, can he be neutered?
I know it sounds a little nuts, but can it be done?

Otherwise, it will have to be a bonnet or bitter apple spray, or the cone of shame on your poor girl, or a muzzle for your boy, lol.

I've added the puppy pads to our grocery list. ;) I've also started cutting up a bunch of newspapers for soft, fluffy flooring. They're separated, one of them is inside a big plastic tub that takes up half the cage, so they can still see each other.. But man, they're both miserable and bonk against it nonstop trying to get to each other. Too bad, lol.
Diglett's bumblefoot is getting smaller and smaller. I just keep soaking her feet twice a day for half an hour at a time, and scrubbing out the wound with a baby brush. I know I'm going to be at this for weeks, despite having caught it early. I hate bumblefoot, it's the worst. It's a real tough kitty.

As for neutering, removing the testes of a male chicken or quail is called caponization and frankly, I'm amazed the process is legal and still practiced. It involves prying the male bird open with a speculum, unsedated and as far as I know completely unanesthetized, and just... cutting through the skin in his bum and ripping them out. Then putting him back in the barnyard. It looks so awful, I'm horrified to do that to any animal. Some people even do this themselves, can you imagine?

I took Hulahulabarb out in his harness and leash yesterday and walked him in the park by the river. He had never been outside on a leash, and he was scared at first, but had such a great time and was super tired when he came home. He still chased Diglett once or twice, but not quite as relentlessly as usual, and they slept peacefully side by side on the floor under my desk until bed time for the first time since they were babies, so I think I'm going to take him for walks whenever the weather allows until his hormones even out and he stops being so mean.

[Ricardo Ronsini]

MisterGribs

Male quails are horny little creatures, and i don't belive his behavior is gonna improove over time, that's what they do, for that it is recommended to have at least 3 or 5 females per male when we keep them toguether.

[MisterGribs]

MisterGribs

Male quails are horny little creatures, and i don't belive his behavior is gonna improove over time, that's what they do, for that it is recommended to have at least 3 or 5 females per male when we keep them toguether.

Ye they are, haha

I would love to have a whole little flock of them, they're great pets. I get a lot more out of them than I do my finches, although I love them both.

[lovezebs]

MisterGribs

Glad to hear that your girlie is getting better and enjoying her treatments.

Did you want to try some puppy pads for her footsies? I'm sure we could get some to you if you wanted to try them. Let me know.

As for your boy, can he be neutered?
I know it sounds a little nuts, but can it be done?

Otherwise, it will have to be a bonnet or bitter apple spray, or the cone of shame on your poor girl, or a muzzle for your boy, lol.

I've added the puppy pads to our grocery list. ;) I've also started cutting up a bunch of newspapers for soft, fluffy flooring. They're separated, one of them is inside a big plastic tub that takes up half the cage, so they can still see each other.. But man, they're both miserable and bonk against it nonstop trying to get to each other. Too bad, lol.
Diglett's bumblefoot is getting smaller and smaller. I just keep soaking her feet twice a day for half an hour at a time, and scrubbing out the wound with a baby brush. I know I'm going to be at this for weeks, despite having caught it early. I hate bumblefoot, it's the worst. It's a real tough kitty.

As for neutering, removing the testes of a male chicken or quail is called caponization and frankly, I'm amazed the process is legal and still practiced. It involves prying the male bird open with a speculum, unsedated and as far as I know completely unanesthetized, and just... cutting through the skin in his bum and ripping them out. Then putting him back in the barnyard. It looks so awful, I'm horrified to do that to any animal. Some people even do this themselves, can you imagine?

I took Hulahulabarb out in his harness and leash yesterday and walked him in the park by the river. He had never been outside on a leash, and he was scared at first, but had such a great time and was super tired when he came home. He still chased Diglett once or twice, but not quite as relentlessly as usual, and they slept peacefully side by side on the floor under my desk until bed time for the first time since they were babies, so I think I'm going to take him for walks whenever the weather allows until his hormones even out and he stops being so mean.

Oh My God!!!

I had no idea that it was such a cruel procedure. That is absolutely horrible. I had visions of a Vet surgical theatre, with anesthesia, oxygen, and the works, nothing as barberic as what you described. That is bloody awful!!!

How in heaven's name, do anti animal cruelty groups not go after them and put a stop to this?

No way is poor Hulaup going through anything like that

So I guess it's back to a bonnet and maybe a chastity belt for little Diglett.

[Icearstorm]

lovezebs
Lots of ground birds are classified under game/poultry, so large farming corporations are lobbying to stop poultry welfare acts from passing; this is likely what is occurring. If I am remembering correctly, non-mammals aren't considered animals under the current set of animal welfare laws (hence the continuing practice of throwing live male chicks into meat grinders in the egg industry).

[MisterGribs]

lovezebs
Lots of ground birds are classified under game/poultry, so large farming corporations are lobbying to stop poultry welfare acts from passing; this is likely what is occurring. If I am remembering correctly, non-mammals aren't considered animals under the current set of animal welfare laws (hence the continuing practice of throwing live male chicks into meat grinders in the egg industry).

You are right. Part of the reason I refuse to rehome my beloved rooster.

It's also the reason I hatched some quail, I hate giving money to egg mills. My hen is really productive, we had some delicious pie crust courtesy of her last night!

[MisterGribs]

MisterGribs

Glad to hear that your girlie is getting better and enjoying her treatments.

Did you want to try some puppy pads for her footsies? I'm sure we could get some to you if you wanted to try them. Let me know.

As for your boy, can he be neutered?
I know it sounds a little nuts, but can it be done?

Otherwise, it will have to be a bonnet or bitter apple spray, or the cone of shame on your poor girl, or a muzzle for your boy, lol.

I've added the puppy pads to our grocery list. ;) I've also started cutting up a bunch of newspapers for soft, fluffy flooring. They're separated, one of them is inside a big plastic tub that takes up half the cage, so they can still see each other.. But man, they're both miserable and bonk against it nonstop trying to get to each other. Too bad, lol.
Diglett's bumblefoot is getting smaller and smaller. I just keep soaking her feet twice a day for half an hour at a time, and scrubbing out the wound with a baby brush. I know I'm going to be at this for weeks, despite having caught it early. I hate bumblefoot, it's the worst. It's a real tough kitty.

As for neutering, removing the testes of a male chicken or quail is called caponization and frankly, I'm amazed the process is legal and still practiced. It involves prying the male bird open with a speculum, unsedated and as far as I know completely unanesthetized, and just... cutting through the skin in his bum and ripping them out. Then putting him back in the barnyard. It looks so awful, I'm horrified to do that to any animal. Some people even do this themselves, can you imagine?

I took Hulahulabarb out in his harness and leash yesterday and walked him in the park by the river. He had never been outside on a leash, and he was scared at first, but had such a great time and was super tired when he came home. He still chased Diglett once or twice, but not quite as relentlessly as usual, and they slept peacefully side by side on the floor under my desk until bed time for the first time since they were babies, so I think I'm going to take him for walks whenever the weather allows until his hormones even out and he stops being so mean.

Oh My God!!!

I had no idea that it was such a cruel procedure. That is absolutely horrible. I had visions of a Vet surgical theatre, with anesthesia, oxygen, and the works, nothing as barberic as what you described. That is bloody awful!!!

How in heaven's name, do anti animal cruelty groups not go after them and put a stop to this?

No way is poor Hulaup going through anything like that

So I guess it's back to a bonnet and maybe a chastity belt for little Diglett.

People just don't see birds as feeling creatures, it's sad. Lol, Hulaup.

Other than him being too rough on Diglett's head feathers, he is a real joy. So far out of everything I've tried, walking him has given me the best results.

Of couse now, he needs to be scheduled for anti parasitics.

[Icearstorm]

MisterGribs

Sounds yummy! How many eggs did that take?

I've read that certain dewormers should not be used unless the bird is experiencing easily-noticed problems due to a parasite load, as the treatment can reduce appetite and have other side effects. This might only be the case for birds of prey (the primary focus of my research into this), but it's something to think about. Most external anti-parasitics should be fine. I met a falconer that uses Frontline for his birds; the raptors require more than a similar-weight (NOT -sized) dog due to a higher metabolism. In theory, this could also work for quail.

I also hear that you can place Sevin dust in a pillowcase, put the bird in with its head sticking out, and shake the sides of the bag. Then take the bird out and rub some Sevin dust on its head. Sevin dust is most likely harmful if consumed or inhaled, so be careful.

[MisterGribs]

MisterGribs

Sounds yummy! How many eggs did that take?

I've read that certain dewormers should not be used unless the bird is experiencing easily-noticed problems due to a parasite load, as the treatment can reduce appetite and have other side effects. This might only be the case for birds of prey (the primary focus of my research into this), but it's something to think about. Most external anti-parasitics should be fine. I met a falconer that uses Frontline for his birds; the raptors require more than a similar-weight dog due to a higher metabolism. In theory, this could also work for quail.

It takes about 5 of Diglett's eggs to make a rhode island red sized egg. I wish we had more hens! We don't have the space, but hopefully that's about to change. The finches LOVE the quail eggs because they're smaller, are more yolk than white, and the shell is super super thin so it grinds up really smooth for the eating.

I'm mostly concerned about feather mites since I've seen some crow feathers in the neighborhood that look ravaged, but I'm also paranoid of any snail-eating because of worms and flukes. I can handle the worms naturally, but I'm not sure about flukes. So far he doesn't eat things off the ground, but that could change as he gets more confident. He also chooses to walk on the sidewalk and not the grass, it freaks him out and he gets really tall trying not to touch it, lol.

[Icearstorm]

MisterGribs

So you have to collect eggs for a week or so to have enough for large omelette? That sounds like a bit of a hassle XD

SCATT or Ivermectin may work for some of the other problems. I've used Ivermectin for my finches, and haven't had a problem. I'm not sure how well it would work for flukes.

I really need to finish my thoughts before I post; too often I'll think of something else and edit for the next twenty minutes... Did you get the section about Sevin dust I added to my previous message?