gouldian hens and dark beaks

[colorin]

It's been over a month since I took the males out of the aviary and left just the hens and the juveniles, hoping they would get out of "breeding mode" and recover before the moult. But their beaks are still charcoal black!!
How long do they take to reverse to "non-breeding mode"?

[Ian]

I puzzled over this for some time, there is a website called `fabulous finches` which details the entire cycle of the gouldian finch.

http://www.fabulousfinch.com/breeding-g ... inches.htm

It would appear that the main driver is diet and it should be adjusted depending on the part of the cycle they are in.

I have found conflicting information regarding the moult however and some sites state that they moult prior to breeding. In my experience however they moult straight after breeding (this would figure in the wild when there is still enough food) and then an austere period is followed before the diet is ramped up again for the next breeding period.

My hens would not go out of breeding condition either and tried to nest in the aviary. After much research I figured that I had brought them into condition too early and the reason they would not stop is that when i tired to stop them they were in there natural period still.

Finally i figured out there cycle (works for me). Breeding September through March - Moulting April through May, Austere June, July - Breeding diet restablished August.

Keep your birds on the breeding diet and eventually they will moult and the hens beaks will lessen in intensity (although still remain smokey). Once they start mark this down on the calendar and then follow the programme on the link. A lot of poeple dont believe in an Austere diet but I am a big believer in following nature and the fact that the birds have evolved an endocrine cycle that is stimulated by this cycle.

Regards Ian

The moult starts with the flight feathers that are on the extremes of the wings (you will see new pin feathers if you look closely).

[debbie276]

I have found conflicting information regarding the moult however and some sites state that they moult prior to breeding. In my experience however they moult straight after breeding (this would figure in the wild when there is still enough food) and then an austere period is followed before the diet is ramped up again for the next breeding period.

Mine always molt in the spring when the temperatures rise. They finish breeding the end of December and it is too cold by that time to molt. After mine molt they breed. According to the experts, those that write the books, they need warm temperatures and a humidity around 50% for a quick clean molt. Winter months don't do that for me, so it really depends on the weather where you are.

[Ian]

Thats interesting regarding the spring and a possibility, mine stopped breeding in March. Although the humidity here is still reasonably low they seem to be coping with some moulting lightly (juveniles not long into adult colours) and others heavily.

It would appear that mine are following the moult - then austere cycle (which works fine with me ) but perhaps the ambient temperature could flip this.

Im guessing these are new birds and you have not had them long (over a full cycle)?

[colorin]

Well, my hens are in the aviary with the juveniles, so the diet is quite rich as the juveniles are moulting. I decided to end the breeding season in early march (they wanted to go on though!) and I will also follow an austere diet prior to the breeding season.
I hope they'll get into breeding condition by late September (when it starts cooling up a bit (mostly at night)
I was watching them this morning and I think their beaks are a bit paler on the base, or maybe it's just wishful thinking

[debbie276]

Im guessing these are new birds and you have not had them long (over a full cycle)?

Not sure if this question was meant for me but my birds are far from new. I've been keeping goulds for well over 10 years. Regardless of when they were born or where I've gotten them, after they've had time to adjust (no more then a year) they all are in sync and breed, molt and rest at the same time.
In the spring when the humidity and temperatures rise they start their molt.
After the molt they go into breeding mode till the end of December. This gives them time to have about 3 clutches each before it gets real cold. By the end of December the humidity is real low and the temperatures are dropping. This works for me because I don't have to worry about the chicks getting chilled when they stop brooding on 10 day old chicks.
They then rest till spring when all molt.
I've never forced any particular "cycle" on them, they just fall into this cycle on their own. Another thing I've noticed is when we have a late spring (unusually cold like this year) they hold off molting till the temps get warmer, so they're not going by any calendar but more the weather conditions.

[colorin]

If breeding cycle is based on weather conditions, why is it that in the northern hemisphere (unless forcing cycles) they usually breed in autumn/winter?
That makes sense in Australia as that is their spring/summer, but here is autumn/winter!

My pairs were breeding from November to late February (and because I removed nests and didn't let them lay more eggs!) which are the coldest months, but none of them stopped brooding at 10 days old. They went on brooding right until the fledging day.

Could it be that they "sensed" that if they didn-t chicks might die?

[debbie276]

I also think a LOT has to do with whether they are inside or outside. If they are inside is it warmer in the house during the winter when your heating and cooler in the summer when running the air conditioners.
I am in the northern hemisphere and they breed when it's the hottest here. Not sure why but this is just what has always happened with my birds and it works well for me. It's funny how all the birds get in to the same cycle too, regardless where they came from.

[colorin]

mine are in an outdoor aviary, much colder than indoors

[Ian]

Im guessing these are new birds and you have not had them long (over a full cycle)?

Not sure if this question was meant for me but my birds are far from new. I've been keeping goulds for well over 10 years..

Hi Debbie,

No it was for colorin, i didnt make it that clear did i

Very interesting information however with regard to all your birds adopting the same cycle naturally.

With regard to your question about northern hemisphere and winter breeding (colorin) making sense in Australia (where it would be the summer) but not here (colder). The gouldian occupies the northern range (tropical) so although it is generally summer in the southern hemisphere this area is rainier and cooler than the dry arid winter (our summer). The gouldian breeds when the temperature starts to dip and it gets wet (like our winter if you heat there avairy). In the dry period (same time as our summer) they rest.

So providing you heat the aviary (or keep indoors) they may adopt this cycle. Even though I heat, it is still below the ambient late spring daytime temperature where my bird room (shed) will reach 25 to 30 degrees (heated to approx 20 in winter) so they sense this rise in temperature and as Debbie has stated initiates the moult. The continued rise in temperature into the summer will mirror there dry season. So effectively by heating in winter it would seem I am able to mirror there cycle in Australia.

Debbie do you heat or rely on the seasonal temperature?

[Ian]

I think as Debbie has stated once you have kept them for a few years there cycle will become known to you and will fit nicely into distinct annual segments.

Sorry if i`ve rambled on a bit, this has puzzled me also in the past and with the input of others it sort of fits into place now.

[debbie276]

Debbie do you heat or rely on the seasonal temperature?

I have my inside birds in a solarium, which is all glass. It is warmer in the summer and cooler in the winter then the house. Summer time it's not unusual for it to get over 90F at the top of the aviary. There are no lights added to extend the day. I have to say in April when we get lots of rain they get all excited and do a lot of singing and bathing.

[nixity]

Mine always molt in the spring when the temperatures rise. They finish breeding the end of December and it is too cold by that time to molt. After mine molt they breed. According to the experts, those that write the books, they need warm temperatures and a humidity around 50% for a quick clean molt. Winter months don't do that for me, so it really depends on the weather where you are.

Same thing for me - ever since I moved up north where there are distinct "seasons" my birds have fallen into a cycle where they almost all start molting around now as the temps are rising and daylight is getting longer, so I tended to always breed my birds after they'd gone through an annual molt.
However - MOST of them would then molt again when they were separated.

So.. sometimes I have birds molt twice within a year, although generally the spring molt is much heavier than the after breeding molt.