Gouldian mating behavior?

[DCbeachboy]

HELP!!!!!

I've just had 2 young finches for 3 weeks, ages 6 and 7 months, and I'm concerned they already may be trying to mate.

I am absolutely, positively NOT ready for this. At all. I've not yet even had time to adjust to my new bird-keeping responsibilities -- now the prospect of potential babies is truly scaring me! In fact I haven't even decided if I want to breed them at all, and purposely have not provided a nest. If I do choose to -- at some point -- it will be at least a year away before I can even consider adding that to my agenda.

Here's what happened this evening....maybe someone more experienced with Gouldians can tell me if it's anything to be concerned about:

I just happened to be watching when this behavior occurred. They were sitting on a branch within a couple inches of each other, and I had just noticed each of them nibbling at the plastic/silk vines and leaves I've attached to the roof of the cage. (A whole other concern -- I've never seen either of them do this before, except for a brief moment yesterday when the male did.)

Suddenly the male lowered his head toward his feet and began violently shaking his head back and forth for a minute or two. At first I was concerned he had poisoned himself by ingesting something toxic from the fake leaves! But then he raised his head and began hopping up and down on the branch -- as I've seen Gouldians do in videos....best I recall, it serves as the male's signal to "Let's get a room."

After a few moments, the hopping stopped, and the lowered head-shaking resumed, then he was hopping again. This alternated for about 6-7 minutes. At some point the hen also lowered her head and began quickly shaking it in the same way. Even my opening the cage door to wave my hand nearby failed to stop them -- it was if they were in a trance, or possessed!!

Then the male flew to the other side of the cage and began searching around (for a nest?). The hen then began obsessively nibbling at the fake leaves again, non-stop for about 10 minutes. I tried to stop her, but she would just find another leaf.

Is this indeed mating behavior? At such a young age?? They are barely the equivalent of teenagers! Short of separating them (not practical), is there any way to stop this behavior? Why is it I suddenly feel that my birds need an adult chaperone 24/7?

[annague]

Hee hee hee!

Sounds like you've got a nice healthy pair of gouldians there!

I don't think there's much to worry about if they don't have a nest -- most gouldian breeders wait at least a year to try to breed -- I'm sure one of them on this forum will address this for certain.

Until then -- forget the chaperone (just relax) -- finches have NO shame.

If you do decide to let them breed when they are old enough hopefully you will be ready for it by then -- really, other than feeding appropriately and supplying nesting products you won't have to do much other than hope and wait.

[DCbeachboy]

Until then -- forget the chaperone (just relax)

Easy for you to say, you've clearly got quite an avian setup there! ;)

Seriously, I just don't have the time, experience, patience, OR more importantly -- the space -- to be able to adequately handle babies yet. I live in a small urban condo and I've managed to make room for this one quite large flight cage in a corner. But adding a second cage isn't an option at all -- just no room.

I'm really hoping you are right and that they won't mate without a nest. God help me if they do. I swear, I think they both were trying to build a nest out of the fake leaves, the way they were both obsessively nibbling them today.

[annague]

It would be VERY unusual for them to lay eggs without something to lay them in -- they may breed but usually the breeding goes along with the nest, nesting materials, etc.

They are probably just flirting and getting to know each other.

So... truly no worries... if they breed and she happens to find a place to lay the eggs (food cup or something) just remove the eggs and give her some dummy eggs to make her think she still has them.
That way nothing will hatch and you don't have to worry about babies no matter what happens with your 'romantical' birds.

And... relax....! They are absolutely BEAUTIFUL gouldians you have there!! You can just enjoy without worrying.

[B CAMP]

Well they are going to mate nothing you can do about it but just don't give them a nest or nesting material if she lays eggs I would just throw away,they are to young .I would make sure they get plenty of calcium so she don't get egg bound

[L in Ontario]

Welcome to the finch world of FUN! Great advice above - all of it.

Yep - relax, enjoy their enjoyment of each other and marvel at Mother Nature! No nest, no nesting material, remove any eggs laid and there will be no babies.

They are beautiful!

[lovemyfinch]

I tend to agree with everyone else.
A.ll of my gouldians that are not breeding, are in an aviary together, there is a lot of flirting going on in there but , I have never seen any eggs. Not with the gouldians anyway.
On the up side, for you, the hens beak isn't black yet, which means that she is not in breeding condition.

Enjoy them, they are beauties

[DCbeachboy]

Thanks, all, for the advice....good to know. And yes, I've relaxed about this. I just was caught unprepared, with it happening so soon after I got them and while they are so very young.

Their little hop-and-headshaking routine has become a regular little sideshow, at least once or twice a day that I know of. This morning it was the very first thing they did after flying down from their overnight perch.....even before eating. It really is as if they are in a trance of some sort while they're doing it....they notice nothing happening around them.

On the up side, for you, the hens beak isn't black yet, which means that she is not in breeding condition.

Well....I took a closer look today, and her beak seems to be growing darker. I wouldn't call it black at all....but seems to be a grayer color than it was. Will try to get an updated photo posted this week when I have the chance.

Does the blackish beak and being in "breeding condition" mean that she is becoming mature enough to breed, and that once she's in this condition she'll always be in it (and the beak will remain "black")? Or does the beak darken only during a certain time of year when they are in the mood to mate?

I'm also concerned about their frequent nibbling of the fake greenery I've attached to the inside of the cage top. About the same time this "flirting" behavior began, I also began noticing them nibbling at these leaves -- something neither had done before in the almost 1 month now that I've had them.

Are these behaviors related? Could they be trying to build a nest? Should I be concerned about them consuming the plastics (?) used to manufacture the plants -- even small amounts? I haven't seen any of the leaves damaged or shredded yet....they all seem to be intact. But the birds certainly have begun trying their best to nibble at them several times/day.

[annague]

Are you giving them greens? Shredded broccoli, collards, kale, carrots?

If not, they may just be trying out the plastics to see if they are edible -- I wouldn't worry about them consuming any too much -- most of us finch people use fake greenery without a problem.

If you are not giving them greens yet -- it is a VERY good thing to do -- they are probably used to it, too. Normally birds raised with green food available love it and will look for it in a new environment.

[DCbeachboy]

Are you giving them greens? Shredded broccoli, collards, kale, carrots?

I've tried each of those -- diced, shredded, and in the case of the kale, whole leaves. I've also tried diced grapes, bananas and canteloupe. They won't touch any of them....they seem to ignore whatever fresh items I give them. They'll inspect them when I first put them in their food dish, but barely give them a cursory glance before flying away in disgust. They are quite finicky and will eat almost exclusively seed and eggfood....and occasionally a bit of Harrison's finch mash.

The ONLY fresh foods I've seen either bird eat are a few nibbles of mango and apple -- and that was only the hen. I've not seen the male touch even those. The hen also pecked a couple of times at some of the diced kale, but I'm quite certain she didn't eat anything....at least I never saw her beak moving as if she were eating.

I've been buying only organic produce for them -- which I rarely even do for myself. But it is such a waste to buy the entire package of these high-priced items -- when I can only use 1-2 leaves, or 2 tablespoons of diced fruit for this pair of birds before the entire package goes bad. Especially considering they aren't even eating it.

I've heard persistence is key with introducing new foods, but I've almost given up. It's been a few days now since I've even given them anything fresh. Whatever I give them they seem to regard as mere cage decoration.

But I'll try again. Maybe their recent preference for plastic leaves is a hint they are ready to try fresh foods again.

[DCbeachboy]

UPDATE: Well so much for that idea. lol

I hung a kale leaf from the top of the cage so it was positioned beside one of their favorite perches -- the one they usually sit on when nibbling the plastic leaves. I'd tried this before, but stopped when they ignored it.

After a while, the hen flew over to inspect it and, within a few minutes had begun nibbling it. That lasted all of 2 minutes. Then she turned around and tried the plastic. Then back to the kale. Then the plastic again. It was as if she was having a little taste test! Announcing her decision, she turned her back on the kale and nibbled for a while on the fake leaves. That was hours ago, and I haven't seen her touch the kale again since.

The male flew over to inspect the kale shortly after the hen's little test, looked at it all of 20 seconds, then went to the seed feeder. I also haven't seen him near the kale since.

I just don't know what more to do to get them into eating fresh foods....it seems a hopeless quest.

[annague]

Try cutting the kale into "beak size" portions and grate some broccoli into crumbles and put it in a little dish with the egg food.

If they eat egg food they will usually try things introduced along with it...

Keep putting it in there -- usually once they start eating their greens they don't stop.

[lovemyfinch]

I have learned that persistence is the only way. What I do is mix up a bunch of different veggies, ex. brocolli, kale, carrots and I then add a little bit of whole wheat couscous. I feel that the couscous looks quite similar to seed which might be the reason that this finally worked for me. Just an idea

[ac12]

I have my veggies in a mix; gouldian seeds, hardboiled egg, veggies. They initially go for the seeds, but will sooner or later "try" the other stuff since it is mixed up with the seeds.

[DCbeachboy]

Thanks Anna, Janine & AC -- some new twists on an old idea I'd tried without any success. In fact I couldn't get them to eat their eggfood at all until I stopped adding diced veggies to it -- they'd barely touch it. The only way they'd eat it is with some Miracle Meal mixed-in.

I'm going to experiment with a combo of these ideas tho, to see if I can find the key. Every lock has a key, right -- even when it comes to Gouldian resistance to new foods?

On the plus side, they FINALLY today began nibbling at the dried kale leaf I'd hung from their roof 3 days ago. I think that's one thing I was doing wrong -- I was removing the kale after a day or so thinking it should be fresh. But they won't touch it then. I forgot to remove it this time and it's been in there for a day or two longer than I'd done in past. And wonder of wonders -- apparently they prefer dried kale! Who knew?! They each were nibbling for 20-30 minutes on it today.

Now, if I can just get them to eat their broccoli, carrots and apple. Your ideas are worth a try....thanks again!