FINCHforum

Does anyone else have a male Gouldian that sings only during certain times of year, then emits no song at all for weeks or months at a time?

For the past 6-8 weeks, my male (9 months old) hasn't sung at all - not even once. I work from home most days, and my desk is within 6 feet of their cage -- so I'd grown accustomed to his whisper-like song many times throughout the day. He often would sing for 30 minutes or so at a time for the first month I had the pair.

Both he and the hen still chirp regularly throughout most of the day (BOY can they chirp -- especially her!)....but no song.

Could it have anything to do with the hen's aggressive/moody behavior these past couple of months as she's adjusting to becoming fertile for the first time? Many days she snaps, hisses and honks at him anytime he comes near her, and has even chased him a couple of times that I know of.

But other days they seem perfectly happy together, spend most of their day near each other, and even do their little courtship dance together.

Any reason at all to think that the singing is to ATTRACT a mate, and that they sometimes may stop singing after they've FOUND a mate? I'm only guessing, of course, as this is my 1st pair and I'm open to anyone's ideas on what may be occurring here. Is this any cause for concern, or something fairly typical?

Some of my males sing more than others. It does seem that they sing more during the breeding season. They still sing while they are paired together and even when the hen is sitting on eggs.

They are beautiful!!!

Watch for any type of neck stretching. I had noticed with mine that some were doing this and not singing. I am not saying this is your case.... but mine had air sac mites and I had to treat the flock.
Two days later they were singing away....

This was just my experience and by no means that this is why your's isn't singing.

When they come into breeding condition the hens beak will darken and usually the male will sing more. Each bird has it's own personality and may or may not be a big singer.
If you notice they have a horse or raspy voice they may have air sac mites but that's probably not your problem.
It also could have been that the male was in the mood and the female wasn't and that was why she was moody and pushing him away. 9 months is a little early to be breeding.
I'm sure they will work it out.
Beautiful birds!
good luck

I haven't heard my new male SF yellow sing since I got him. He seems very healthy and active and has fathered 2 gorgeous clutches of babies but I have yet to hear him sing. I have some that sing all day and night. My adult male Jinx sings but not that often. I've seen him singing and dancing for his sons on a few occasions. I do find it strange though that I've never heard my yellow male sing. ?

Renee

My males usually start to sing after they have been out of
the next for a month. It is so cute when they are learning to sing...... their little squeaky voices. IF I had a male that never sang, I would personally treat it for air sac mites. I have done this and have birds singing all over the place now.

I don't have Gouldians now, but because they tend to have air sac mites more than many other species, I think that any new Gouldians should be treated for air sac mites as a precaution.

[NOTE: This reply is to a separate thread I had begun concerning the hen's recent moody/aggressive behavior. The issue of the male's non-singing arose, and I began this 2nd thread to separate what I then perceived to be a separate issue. That thread is here: http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12118 . Very sorry for any confusion. Bottom line from that thread: seems that both birds may be frustrated due to lack of a nest.]

MLaRue wrote:Does your male sing in the morning at all? Usually as soon as they wake up he will start to sing to the hen in hopes that we are breeding today but if he isn't even doing that - well that is odd.

No....no song at all, anytime of day, for almost 2 months now. He seems perfectly happy and healthy, however, in every other regard. He eats well, chirps throughout the day, and flies over to greet me each morning and whenever I approach the cage. He really seems perfectly fine, except for the lack of singing.

This said, yesterday and today I did notice a new aggressive behavior in him I'd never seen before. Up to this point the ONLY aggression in the cage was in the hen. But now I've seen him 3 times "scold" Lucy when he finds her sitting in front of the mirror -- he will peck at her and literally chase her away from it. He will then hop directly in front of the mirror and begin pecking at his own reflection for several minutes, while hissing. I'm guessing it's because, when he looks in the mirror, he sees another male -- not realizing it's himself. Apparently he thinks his girl is trying to two-time him, and he has to chase away the other "suitor".

Thanks to all for the input....you've definitely raised my level of concern. I do feel quite certain that neither bird had air sac mites when I picked them up from the breeder 3 months ago....I have absolutely full confidence in the health of her birds. Assuming that they arrived in my home without the mites....is it really possible they could develop them afterward -- when they haven't been around any other birds? These 2 are the only birds I have and the only ones I've even been around for the past 3 months. Also, they seem to have no problem at all breathing...and in fact are displaying none of the classic ASM symptoms. Can that really be the problem?

If you sense hesitation, it's only because I'm reluctant to put them through the stress of catching them by hand (something I've never done) in order to treat them. I do have SCATT in my bird medicine chest, but I've never touched either of the birds and I fear they will go absolutely berserk if I try. Obviously if there's strong reason to suspect ASMs, then I'll do what must be done. I just want to be sure there's probable cause here before causing my birds to hate me for the next few days.

According to Laraine at Lady Gouldian Finch...... all gouldians carry the mites, but they are dormant until the bird is stressed. I am not sure if this is try or not, but I now treat my pro-actively. Better safe than sorry. I think if I were you I would catch them up and scatt them.

I know how you feel about handling them because I used to be scared to death of that. I would make my husband catch and hold them. Now I don't think a thing about it.... comes second nature.

Aha, I think I may have found one teeny tiny little problem. Get rid of the mirror. He see's the other male as competition, and she is seeing the other hen as competition.

Is lack of singing actually a symptom of air-sac mites? I've never seen that listed as one in the various descriptions I've read....but I realize the life-or-death implications and that they aren't something to take lightly. It just seems bizarre. The male seems perfectly healthy in every other way -- a very strong appetite, high activity level, frequent chirping, courtship dancing, and he seems to be breathing normally. If he HAS become stressed recently and the mites are beginning to cause problems, then wouldn't he be showing other symptoms as well? I'm just not seeing anything. Nothing. Just lack of singing. And remember -- he DID sing very often for the first month or so that I had him. He just suddenly stopped completely around November.

dfcauley wrote:According to Laraine at Lady Gouldian Finch...... all gouldians carry the mites, but they are dormant until the bird is stressed. I am not sure if this is true or not, but I now treat mine pro-actively. Better safe than sorry. I think if I were you I would catch them up and scatt them.

If this is true -- if birds can actually harbor the mites without showing any of the classic symptoms until they become stressed....it's quite alarming! I had thought mine were safe since I wasn't introducing any new birds to my home. But if their immune systems have been keeping the mites in check until now....that means they could be hiding anywhere in the cage as well. Or even in the area surrounding the cage in my living room. That's the last thing an obsessive-compulsive clean freak like me needs to hear -- I'll be awake nights now worrying whether mites are hiding somewhere in their cage (or in my home), even after I've treated the birds.

Neither bird seems to be in any distress at this point....so I'll mull it over for another day before deciding on treatment. Any tips on catching and treating a Gouldian....without causing it (or myself) to have a heart attack? If I'm going to treat them, I'll need to do a THOROUGH top-to-bottom cage scrubbing, and that will have to be a weekend project.

lovemyfinch wrote:Aha, I think I may have found one teeny tiny little problem. Get rid of the mirror. He see's the other male as competition, and she is seeing the other hen as competition.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing earlier today. Oddly, both birds have enjoyed sitting for many long periods in front of that mirror -- sometimes up to an hour at a time, looking at their own reflections. Until now, neither bird has ever displayed aggressive behavior as a result of the mirror during the 3 months I've had them, and the mirror has been present since day one.

It's become quite comical to watch these past couple of days, however -- realizing that the hen never sees anything but "another" hen in the mirror, and the cock sees something entirely different -- he only sees "another" male. Neither can possibly realize that their mate sees a very different thing than they see!

The hen will be just sitting innocently watching the hen in the mirror, and occasionally chirping sweetly at it -- not in a competitive way, just "Can we talk, girlfriend?" way. Then suddenly the male sees her at the mirror and whooshes over to chase her away from it -- scolding her and pecking in her direction (I haven't seen him actually touch her -- the pecking is simply directed toward her.) This is the very first aggression he's EVER shown.

The bewildered look on the hen's face seems to say, "Honest, I wasn't flirting with another male -- what are you talking about? I was just chatting with a girlfriend!" Then the male will position himself directly against the mirror, and peck several times at his own reflection while screeching at it. He's obviously defending his turf -- and his mate. Having been chased away, the hen watches this show nearby -- probably thinking that he's attacking her girlfriend (not another male) for no reason at all, and that she's living with a real nut!

No overly aggressive behavior yet, but I suppose if this escalates further he could injure himself by attacking the mirror. So I'll be removing it, for now at least. Never a dull moment in Finch World.

Oh gosh.... I didn't mean to alarm you in any way. This is something I have myself been really trying to learn about. According to what I have been told they have to have a host... in other words live in the birds only.
I was in NO way saying your birds had this, just offering a suggestion of something that it could be.
I am not sure if it is true about them having dormant ASM but if you will go to this site you can read more about it

http://ladygouldian.com/node/174

I am now treating my birds monthly for the next six month because I know for sure now that I have had a few birds with them. They are all singing now, no more neck stretching etc....

Your birds are absolutely beautiful!!!!!

Is lack of singing actually a symptom of air-sac mites?

yes, but not a guarantee that it is air sac mites.

...that means they could be hiding anywhere in the cage as well. Or even in the area surrounding the cage in my living room. That's the last thing an obsessive-compulsive clean freak like me needs to hear -- I'll be awake nights now worrying whether mites are hiding somewhere in their cage (or in my home), even after I've treated the birds.

air sac mites are not like feather or red mites, from everything I've read they are transmitted from bird to bird and do not live in the surrounding environment. Here are a couple of articles to read about them:
http://www.avianweb.com/airsackmites.html
http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/featur ... cmites.mgi

Sounds to me like your doing the responsible thing and taking your time to learn all you can before you allow them to breed, if you allow it at all. I'm sure your birds will be better off for it.
best of luck

dfcauley wrote:I am now treating my birds monthly for the next six month because I know for sure now that I have had a few birds with them. They are all singing now, no more neck stretching etc.

Must be a relief to have that under control now. Besides neck stretching and not singing, were they showing any other symptoms?

I haven't noticed any neck stretching, except for the other night when both birds suddenly began looking frantically around the cage for an hour or so -- presumably for a place to build a nest (?). I haven't seen that before or since, though.

Thanks for the info DF and Debbie -- gained some new insight into air sac mites that I hadn't heard before. I'll definitely monitor the situation closely, and may yet treat them this weekend...especially if any new symptoms appear. So far the only odd behaviors I'm seeing are: the male isn't singing, and the hen has occasional days when she is particularly moody/aggressive, and other days when she hunches down and enters a coma-like state, without moving or making a sound for an hour or two, several times per day. I'm not seeing anything unusual in their droppings, but I think perhaps the female isn't eating or drinking quite as much as usual these past few days (not certain).

I at first thought of the hen and cock's issues as two separate problems....but I'm now realizing they may very well be related. Seems the likely culprit is one of two things: either air-sac mites or sheer frustration at not being able to breed due to lack of a nest. Obviously I'm hoping it's the latter!

dfcauley wrote:Your birds are absolutely beautiful!!!!!

Thanks, and aren't they though? Judging from the daily mirror time they invest, they apparently think so, too! Of course, their mommas and poppas deserve all the credit for the good genes....along with a little nudging by their breeder, Tiffany.