why is the red different color on Goulds?

[yvonnew]

This weekend I went to a bird mart close to my house.

While I was there I fell in love with some white breasted goulds needless to say I bought 1 pr of red headed and 1 pr yellow headed. All birds are healthy and beautiful!

I did notice once I got home the red on the birds purchased is no where near as deep as the pair I already own. On the new birds the red is a red-orange and on my other pair the red is a deep rich almost burgundy red. Does anyone know why there is such a difference?

As always, I appreciate your help
Yvonne

[debbie276]

There will always be a variation of color from one bird to the next. A lot depends on their diet, living conditions and of course genes. I wouldn't be surprised if their color changed a bit their next molt after being on your diet.

[yvonnew]

Thanks Debbie for the feedback.
Both head colors are nice but, I do like the deeper red better

[debbie276]

Your welcome
The condition of a birds feathers mirrors the condition of the bird and particularly the nutritional past of the bird. The basic structure of the feather is protein. Deficiency of complete protein and a variety of other vitamin and mineral deficiencies can cause poor feather condition, they may break easily and/or be low luster.
Minerals in feathers are responsible for their stiffness and depth of color, while fats, oils and especially essential fatty acids are responsible for feather sheen, gloss and iridescence.

[MLaRue]

You don't think some might be due to genetics? Like when the RH looks more OH no matter what which is what brought on the debate of a Tangerine color? I have some in my flock that are on the same exact diets and one is the gorgeous dark red velvet color and others will be more of an orange red. Doesn't happen often but it does happen.

[debbie276]

I think a lot of the color is genetics, didn't mean to say otherwise.

[MLaRue]

I think a lot of the color is genetics, didn't mean to say otherwise.

No worries Deb - I just thought you were saying it was possibly the diet alone...

And, I was sitting here going then how could the few I have be that color when they all have the same diet? But then I guess it could be how the bird absorbs the nutrition given - much like humans...

[CandoAviary]

I believe that in the wild you can judge the health by the color/richness of the head. However in captivity there has been so many mutations bred resulting in many shades of head colors, breast colors, back colors, and wing colors. Some of the leading gouldian breeders have produced the more orange head colors and these birds were on an equally sound diet. I am referring to Winnie McAlpin from Delmar Aviary. She refers to this color as Tangerine head. Here is a link to her tangerines
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11859828@N05/page6/
I have both head colors and like them both. I can assure you that the color of mine is not due to a bad diet, as they are all fed the same. It is simply the color of this line of gouldians. I like breeding for differnet colored head from blue headed dilutes to tangerine reds.. I have the cherry red color and what I call fire engine red colors also
Gouldian mutations can vary in shades just like a persons hair color. Depending on the genes that are crossed can have an effect on the offsprings hair color.
You must also take into account the breast color, back color and whether the bird is single factor of double factor. All of these this will contribute to the amout of color repressed due to the interactions of the genes at play.
If your bird has good feathering and has rich color in other areas then I wouldn't conclude that the coloring is from bad diet. Just the birds genetics. If it is due to the diet then with improvement and with the next ,olt you will see a difference. If it genetic this trait will be passed on. So if you do not like the color then you may not want to breed this bird. Though, I bet the color will grow on you, I have come to love them all


Male and Female deep red head colors: note, normal greenbacks




Fire Engine Red: note, single factor, purple breast, green back


Tangerine Red: note, white breast, normal green back

same bird


Here are a couple of red head females showing extreme differences in head colors:
White breast, yellow back and not the best quality


Another :

A beautiful, deep red headed hen:



You will also see the same shades in the yellow headed birds:
Deep Orange: note, purple breast, green back


Medium Orange: note. purple breast, yellow back


Note, lilac breast, yellow back


Light Orange: note, white breast, yellow back

[debbie276]

I do believe the richness, iridescence and sheen of the color is because of the diet. Not so much the tint, unless your color feed them like you would canaries.

[debbie276]

BEAUTIFUL pictures Candace!

[annague]

I learn something new about gouldians almost every day on this forum! I like pretty much all the tones and colors (honestly) but I was thinking -- could much of the difference in the mask colors (besides genetics) be the underlying feather colors? (Maybe that doesn't make sense....?!) You know, like if you use a red crayon on top of a black crayon it makes the red darker? But if you use a red crayon on white -- the red is brighter, etc.? I may not know what I'm talking about, though.....

[MLaRue]

I learn something new about gouldians almost every day on this forum! I like pretty much all the tones and colors (honestly) but I was thinking -- could much of the difference in the mask colors (besides genetics) be the underlying feather colors? (Maybe that doesn't make sense....?!) You know, like if you use a red crayon on top of a black crayon it makes the red darker? But if you use a red crayon on white -- the red is brighter, etc.? I may not know what I'm talking about, though.....

Made perfect sense to me Anna But genetics are NOT my thing - I leave that to the smarties that enjoy it...

[MLaRue]

BEAUTIFUL pictures Candace!

Candace... pictures...colors... so pretty!

[CandoAviary]

Exactly Anna That is why I put...note, white breast or yellow back. When genes are inherited the color you see is due to the genetic inheritance and the dominance/recessive characteristics.. For instance, the reason you get lilac breast is due to the fact that some of the melanins, particularly the phaeomelanin, are blocked so the darker purple is not visible. We see lilac instead and many different shades of lilac at that. This lilac inheritance is recessive to purple breasted yet dominant over white breasted. White is the result of all eumelanin and phaeomelanin blocked. So understanding how the genes repress the colors, and also the textures of the feathers, along with the effects of light refraction.
The blue in gouldians is actually not a pigment color at all, it is a structual color and is the result of the ultraviolet light being absorbed by the barbed box cell feather structure and being perceived by the human eye as blue. (though it is actually from the red spectrum) They say that gouldians can see reflected light in the ultraviolet range, we humans cannot. So gouldians probably see each other differently as we see them.
I have noticed that all the hens will go for the males with the red line fusion bar before any others. I wonder if this has to do with their eyesight and if this triggers something? I also noticed that when the male is in prime breeding condition, his bar is larger and brighter than ever. Maybe just a coincidence but just another observation that I have noted.
These birds are truly the rainbow finches, as they are often referred as.

[annague]

Candace I feel smarter just READING your posts! Lovely pictures and birds!