Aggressive Hen

[DCbeachboy]

I've referenced this problem in the past, but until today it had never reached a point where I was seriously concerned.

From the very start since I adopted them last October, my hen routinely snips/hisses/honks/pecks at the male each night as they are preparing to roost. This aggression also happened during the daytime when I first introduced the pair, but seemed to pretty much subside after a few weeks.

For the past 3-4 months, this aggression has been mostly confined to roosting time only. It happens whether he's trying to roost next to her (which he almost always tries to do), or whether he's given up and is roosting by himself -- at which point she'll decide that SHE wants whatever perch he is on and chases him away. This typically goes on for as long as I have the cage uncovered, and the ONLY way I've found to stop it is by covering the cage. Even though they have a moonlight and can see slightly when covered, they both typically freeze in place for the night the moment I cover them.

This evening however I noticed the hen took things a step farther. A couple of hours before roosting time, I noticed the hen very viciously peck several times at the male when he tried to sit next to her -- not just pecking in his direction as she usually does, but literally pecking him. He flew off before she could do any damage, but I noticed a short while later that she did the same thing again -- and this time she also attacked him -- flying onto his back. He flew away again, seemingly unharmed but rather startled by her attack.

Oddly, within minutes, he would always approach her again. And each time, she snapped/honked at him -- once even chasing him away by flying after him. Of course then at roosting time, when the timed cage light turned off for the night....the usual chase.

Don't laugh, but I swear it really did appear that she had a very mean, almost devilish look in her eyes as this aggression was occurring.

Is this any cause for concern, or is this typical of Gouldians? Could it be caused by frustration over inability to nest (since I haven't yet provided them a nest)? They seem very closely bonded for the most part. He seems very happy and is quite the romantic crooner. He sings to her almost non-stop every afternoon -- for hours. He does the courtship dance for her several times each day, she often joins in, and she even did so this afternoon. They often sit side by side during the day, they eat together, and appear as the perfect lil couple. Until night. Then she turns into a little monster.

I'm not too concerned about the roosting-time behavior -- that's fairly easily handled by covering them. But I don't know what to do if the extra-aggressive behavior I saw today continues to occur during the daytime. Maybe she was just in a bad mood today? Has anyone else seen such behavior, and how did you handle it?

[dfcauley]

I would say that either he wants to mate and she is not ready or she seriously does not like him. Could you maybe try another mate with him????

My birds sometimes bicker at roosting time also when they want the same spot. It doesn't usually last long and they settle down. It appears you have a hen that isn't so nice.

[L in Ontario]

I would suggest getting him a different mate as well. I don't think that is common for Gouldians - not all the ones I have or had.

[GOULDYGIRL]

It's a tough call. You only have the one pair. I've never seen this either with any of my gouldians. I've had other issues keeping same sex together but never aggression. It sounds like either breeding frustration or just a nasty hen, either way is there anyway you can separate them, even if it's temporary? Maybe a little alone time will cool her down, even if you keep them side by side?

That's all I can think of.

[JohnBoy]

I have had this problem with Goulds and Zebras. I just remove the aggressor and give them new mates. She just does not like him and never will, believe me.

[DCbeachboy]

Wow. That's not at all encouraging. I was hoping for a less drastic solution. But I realize this may perhaps be the right one, and I appreciate the input.

Yes, I only have the one pair, and no room for a 2nd cage. So separating them isn't possible, and giving them new mates would be quite complicated.

Before I go to the trouble of trying to arrange that, is there any chance this is only a temporary problem -- either a simple case of a bad mood yesterday or just frustration over inability to nest? So far this morning she seems perfectly fine, and even joined in his usual morning courtship dance again.

Competing for roosting space, I understand, can be fairly typical at roosting time -- so mild aggression at that point doesn't really concern me. It's this new daytime aggression I saw yesterday that concerns me, as it hasn't occurred in 3-4 months, since shortly after I introduced them together.

I guess my hesitation to accept that she doesn't like him is due to the fact that she typically spends much of her waking hours very peacefully side by side with him, and she DOES respond very often to his courtship hoppy dance. If she didn't like him, would I really be seeing those behaviors? They really do seem very closely bonded together, for the most part.

He is clearly in love with her, and I've never seen him initiate any aggression toward her whatsoever. Only twice have I seen any aggression from him, and both times he was responding to her snapping at him.

If this is all due to nesting frustration, would it be worth giving them a nest after all to see if it ends the problem? I had planned to wait another 3-4 weeks til they are both a full year old, but maybe they're close enough. Or is there a chance she also may show this same aggressive behavior toward any chicks and thus have poor maternal instincts? I'm almost hesitant to risk it, yet am also wondering if the joys of motherhood may change her.

[L in Ontario]

From the very start since I adopted them last October, my hen routinely snips/hisses/honks/pecks at the male each night as they are preparing to roost. This aggression also happened during the daytime when I first introduced the pair, but seemed to pretty much subside after a few weeks.

You did say this has been ongoing more or less since you got the hen which is why most of us suggest giving him a different mate. Of course you can keep her with him if nothing more serious happens.

If you can post a pic of them - it could help determine whether either one is in breeding season.

[JohnBoy]

I have noticed this problem when I put a RH with a BH together. For some reason they just don't like each other. I put them with their same head color and the problem is solved. Are they different head colors?

I have a RH dilute male with a BH female now. She can't stand to be near him. They stay on opposite sides of the cage. However she is not aggressive with him unless he tries to mate with her. ASAP I will get them paired off with compatible mates.


Is there anyway you can divide the cage temporarily?

[lovemyfinch]

I find myself on the other side of the fence here
Here`s an idea. Is it at all possible that as questioned, she is frustrated . If she is in breeding condition, and he is singing but not building a nest (Hey I would be) She probably thinks he`s a tease.
You say that they are only 3 weeks shy of beeing a year old. I would personally let them go for it. It might be your best way of finding out just what the problem is.

[ac12]

I am not an expert by any means, but I agree w Janine. Give them a nest and see if that is what is driving the hen to behave like she is, frustration and wanting to mate. In a couple cases, it seems that it was the hen that was checking out the nest first, not the male.

I did have a couple hens become AGGRESSIVE to their mates, but that was after they laid all the eggs in the clutch. I had one that was so AGGRESSIVE that the male could not land on any perch, he hand to hang on to the side of the cage. She looked at him with her beak open, and as soon as he landed on a perch she went after him. It took a spray w the water bottle to calm the hen down, then she went into the nest and the male could land on a perch. But like yours, she did not behave like this all the time.

[DCbeachboy]

I have noticed this problem when I put a RH with a BH together. For some reason they just don't like each other. I put them with their same head color and the problem is solved. Are they different head colors?...Is there anyway you can divide the cage temporarily?

No, they are both redheads, though the male is definitely more classic candy-apple red, while she is more of a carrot-top (see photos). I'm not sure dividing the cage is practical, as it's only 30" wide to begin with. But it may be worth a shot....I'll give it some thought.

If you can post a pic of them - it could help determine whether either one is in breeding season.

See attached. I had a difficult time today getting decent photos that clearly showed both beaks, but hopefully one of the attached 3 will suffice. They were in the midst of an extensive preening when I took these shots, so some of their feathers are slightly out of place here.

As for breeding condition: Her beak turned dark about a month or so after I got her, and his beak turned pearl-white about a month or so later and remained that way for most of the winter. Hers is still quite dark today, while his is no longer as white -- some red and gray has returned to his beak in recent weeks after I severely reduced their eggfood intake (in hopes of delaying their nesting instinct). But their courtship behavior hasn't changed -- it's as frequent as ever...and perhaps even more so in recent days.

As you can see, they seem very happily paired 99% of the time. But during that other 1%, she can be quite vicious when she wants to be. I'm hoping to nip this behavior in the bud, so to speak -- before it becomes a habit. Or at least the daytime behavior, as it's already the normal routine at roosting time.

It took a spray w the water bottle to calm the hen down, then she went into the nest and the male could land on a perch. But like yours, she did not behave like this all the time.

I LOVE this idea -- thanks AC! Some cooling off may be just what she needs, and if I can catch her in the act perhaps she will learn to associate this nasty behavior with being squirted. I'll let you know how that goes.

Here's an idea. Is it at all possible that as questioned, she is frustrated . If she is in breeding condition, and he is singing but not building a nest (Hey I would be) She probably thinks he's a tease. You say that they are only 3 weeks shy of beeing a year old. I would personally let them go for it. It might be your best way of finding out just what the problem is.

LOL...well if anyone in the cage is a tease, I would think the male probably thinks it's HER! After all, she's the one who often responds to his courtship dance, who stays by his side most of the day, and listens attentively to his hours of crooning every afternoon. Hey, maybe that's the problem -- she can only take so much of his singing, and she's finally rebelling? I know if I listened to my mate sing for 4-5 hours non-stop every day, I'd probably go psycho too!

I do want to give them a chance to nest, in hopes this behavior IS simply pent-up frustration. I will want to give their cage a thorough spring-cleaning first, however -- and I won't have a chance to do that until at least next weekend. I just am fearful that she also may turn her aggression toward any hatchlings if they produce any, and bully them out of the nest or off any perch when they try to roost. If that happens, maybe I could separate her temporarily by placing her in a small travel cage for a week or so until I can decide what to do with her.

One other question about nesting: I am planning to have a friend care for my birds while I'm away for 2 weeks in mid-July. How old would the juveniles need to be before I could safely entrust someone else with their care? Do they require a high level of care at 2 months? 1 month?

I'm moving into the breeding arena somewhat reluctantly here, but I realize they both may be happier that way....and if that's the case, it will be worth enduring whatever grandparenting adventures lie ahead for me.

[G8love4finches]

Those are a couple of beautiful birds!!....The photos are great too!...Good luck with your pair!

[JohnBoy]

Unless the color is off in the pic, It looks to me as though you have an OH (YH) and a RH.

[GOULDYGIRL]

I'm just curious, if you only have room for one cage, why are you going to let them breed?? Will you be keeping any of the babies? Are you planning to sell them? They can have anywhere from 1-6 or so babies is the one cage big enough if you have a large clutch?

I was going to suggest what Jordan mentioned if you didn't have room for another cage, to try and add a divider or something.

[DCbeachboy]

Unless the color is off in the pic, It looks to me as though you have an OH (YH) and a RH.

Hmm....well I think the photos are quite close to their true colors, though maybe off just very slightly if at all. But both birds were sold to me as RH-PB-Normals by a highly reputable breeder and forum member whom I trust explicitly. Although the female is split to lilac or white for breast color and split to blue for back. She is descended from a RH-PB-normal hen and a blue-back male (although I'm not sure now what his head and breast colors were, as I've temporarily misplaced the genetic certificates I received with the birds.)

Although I, too, questioned the RH issue at first, I was assured there are many different hues of redheads in Gouldians, and hers just happens to be quite different from his.

One additional new behavior I also wanted to mention, for what it's worth -- in case it may help clue-in someone as to what is causing her suddenly increased aggression: Over the past couple of days, the hen has been chirping a series of 4 quick chirps in quick succession, resting for 2-3 seconds, then repeating with 4 more chirps, etc. This begins in late afternoon and continues until roosting time. She is quite NOISY -- chirping constantly for hours and hours, and I don't know about the male but it's driving my own mate and me quite nutty! Could this -- combined with the aggression -- be a symptom of anything in particular?

if you only have room for one cage, why are you going to let them breed?? Will you be keeping any of the babies? Are you planning to sell them? They can have anywhere from 1-6 or so babies is the one cage big enough if you have a large clutch?

I originally hadn't planned to let them nest at all, due to space limitations. But because they've seemed frustrated for a while now over their inability to nest, I had almost decided to let them try it after they both reach 1 year of age. Now with the prospect that maybe she's maybe channeling her nesting frustration into open aggression, I'm inclined to definitely let them try their hand at nesting.

The cage is 30" wide by 24" deep x 36" high.....plenty big enough for maybe 3 birds if necessary, or 4 at very most -- though that's a bit too crowded. Practically, I don't believe the cage is big enough for me to keep any babies they produce, at least not more than a while. So yes -- I was planning to sell any offspring as soon as they are big enough to be separated -- but before they enter the molting stage.

If absolutely necessary, I can always dedicate another corner of our condo to a smaller second cage.....temporarily. But I'd strongly prefer to avoid that if at all possible. I'm just not ready to turn my living room into an aviary!