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Both my birds are deep into their first adult molt now -- a hard molt at that. But imagine my surprise today to realize the hen suddenly appears to have had a "dye job" seemingly overnight! She is finally a true red-head, after being a carrot-top from the time I adopted her last October.

I'm attaching before and after photos below. The photos can't show the color as clearly as in real life, and their pin feathers are giving both a "prematurely gray" appearance....but from what I can tell, it looks as if both birds now have identical head colors. Before, they were about as far apart on the red spectrum as they could be -- so I welcome this unexpected development.

Has anyone else noticed such a change with their birds after a molt? I've always heard that eventually every human couple begins looking the same after they live together long enough, so maybe the same effect is at work in Gouldians?

Even the male has noticed -- today I've seen him quizzically looking her up and down from head to toe, not quite sure if she's really the same lady he shacked up with a few months back. Of course, his current state of dishevelment has prompted more than a few odd glances on her part, as well! I'm sure neither realizes they're each looking as rough as the other these days.

You can tell when their beaks are red that they are red-heads (even if they appear to be yellow or orange heads).

Way to go Lucy!! We love ya!

That's amazing! Never heard of that before. I wonder if she was fed something that caused her head to be the orange color, like they color feed canaries.
Beautiful either way!

debbie276 wrote:I wonder if she was fed something that caused her head to be the orange color, like they color feed canaries.

Interesting question, and that would explain this oddity. Nice try! But I can say with full certainty that wasn't the case before I took custody, and I definitely haven't been giving her any additive while I've had her. They both eat the very same food anyway, and he wasn't affected.

I did add Feather Fast to their diet a week or so ago to help ensure they get enough protein for their molt, as they've been rarely touching their eggfood since they began molting. Surely the addition of Feather Fast wouldn't have prompted this, and so quickly? If so, I'm assuming the color won't revert back to orange after I stop the Feather Fast? I'm attaching another photo of just her, also taken yesterday, which may show the new color slightly better. (Yes, I know her nails need to be trimmed -- I'm just waiting til they complete their molt so I don't add any extra stress during this already difficult time for them. )

European/Siberian Goldfinches can have that happen to them, if they are not fed enough wild seed and caratin in their diet.
I have actually changed my mules colour from a copper to red by feeding him red eggfood for canaries.
She is a true red.

Jerry

BigBear0007 wrote:European/Siberian Goldfinches can have that happen to them, if they are not fed enough wild seed and caratin in their diet.

Hmmm....well, I AM learning a lot about birdkeeping through trial and error -- but one of the few things I am confident about is that they are both getting a well-balanced diet, both before and after I took custody. I've continued the same Birds R Us seed they had been getting at the breeder's, although I recently switched from the maintenance to breeding & molting formula.

In addition to that, I mix in some Dr. Harrison's high-potency pellets (which supposedly are all-inclusive in terms of vitamins and nutrients), and some Dr. Harvey's "Fabulous Finch" seed mix (which is loaded with dried fruit and veggies, including carrots). I also coat this entire seed mixture with a small amount of wheat-germ and cod-liver oil, then add some dried alfalfa and Avian Plus vitamins. I also provide fresh kale leaves about 4 times/week (which they both love), although I've never really been able to get them to eat any other fresh fruit or vegetables -- except Lucy occasionally will nibble just a bit on mango on those rare times I can find an organic one. I've provided eggfood for them consistently, although they have almost stopped eating it entirely when they began their molt. They also have 24/7 access to granulated kelp, Hatch eggshell and oyster shell. A week ago I began adding charcoal as well -- which both birds seemed to enjoy so much I had to restrict it out out of fear they were consuming too much.

I'm planning to begin offering sprouted seed very soon, but am somewhat intimidated by the process and haven't done so yet. (I know they were getting that from the breeder.) So far, the only changes I've made to their diet while in my care have all been in the past week or so, and they are:
1) Added Feather Fast (a couple of small pinches sprinkled over their seed once/day).
2) Added access to charcoal.
3) Switched from Birds R Us maintenance to breeding & molting diet.

Unless one of these could have prompted the color change, then yet another mysterious force other than diet is at work here.

I have noticed that a lot of my babies will have a slight tint change with their second molt, no changes in their diet.
I tend to think that maybe they are just getting their mature and true colours.

I would think it was more from the previous owners side then yours. The color should be red and not orange so the problem (if there was a problem) would have been before they molted previous to your owning them.

This was her right after her juvenile molt before Dave got her



She always looked red to me

Glad to see Opie is pinning out in his head, I know you were a bit worried ;)

nixity wrote:This was her right after her juvenile molt before Dave got her

[ http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u276/nixityphotos/Normals/IMG_2431.jpg ]

She always looked red to me

Glad to see Opie is pinning out in his head, I know you were a bit worried ;)

And yet her beak looks more orange than red (to me) in your pic Tiffany!

She always looked red to me

In that picture she sure looks red to me too

LOL.....so sorry, Tiffany. I had only intended this post as a lighthearted tongue-in-beak "Well, whaddaya know!" post -- strictly for fun. Though I was curious what could have caused the fairly significant change in tint, I never imagined it could turn into a critique of your dietary practices!

As I said earlier, I knew both that I'm providing them a well-balanced diet, and that I could say with 100% confidence that there was absolutely nothing wrong with her diet before I assumed custody. Frankly, there's a better chance that Muammar Gaddafi will win the next Nobel Peace Prize, than there being some deficiency in the diet you were providing her. That much I know.

I do think Janine is right -- it must be nothing more than an oddity that apparently surfaces now and then with their second molt -- which of course is their first as an adult. I'm old enough to realize that some things in life just weren't meant to be understood, and this apparently is one of them.

As for the photo of her before I picked her up -- I suspect that must be a case of lighting or perhaps a camera that is slightly off in color, because she was never that red even on the day I picked her up. I could never get a decent photo of her those first few days she was here, because she usually was either hiding in the shadows or flitting around endlessly in a blur of motion. But I did manage to find one decent photo from those days when she was actually at rest and not in hiding -- and it clearly shows her head color. It was taken Oct. 16, later the same week she moved into her new home. As you can see, it's dramatically more orange than the male's, and always has been. Until now. And I have to admit, I'm quite pleased with the change! It remains to be seen how Opie feels about it. He had stopped doing his usual courtship dance with her a few days ago, but I just noticed earlier today that he has resumed -- and she responded! So maybe there's hope for them yet.

Yeah, after a brief balding period last week, his pin feathers have begun sprouting up nicely the last few days....Tiffany, you were right -- again -- of course! For the record, I've never doubted you, and I feel fortunate in being one of your many number-one fans!

there's a better chance that Muammar Gaddafi will win the next Nobel Peace Prize, than there being some deficiency in the diet you were providing her.

I just wanted to say that I never said or thought that there was a deficiency in her diet. There are certain foods that can enhance or change the colors and that's all I was thinking.

Debbie, I think everyone realizes you were merely trying to be helpful by offering what is, frankly, a very logical explanation for the color change.

I'm sure that something in the diet very often is a key cause behind such changes in some birds. Yet I believe we can most definitely rule that out in this specific case. As Janine has attested, sometimes colors do shift a bit with the 2nd molt -- apparently some birds do not completely achieve their full adult head hues until that point. This probably happens only rarely, and may well be genetic in origin. Just one of those things we'll never know why.

I'm very grateful for your input and for the equally unique insight everyone else has provided, as well. That's why I'm here (and I suspect is why each of us is here). To learn, and to share. I have nothing but the utmost respect for you, Tiffany, Candice, Liz, Sally, Janine and all the numerous other seasoned finchers on here -- I honestly would have been lost many times without their guidance these past 8 months.

I also realize that no one among us -- however new or however seasoned -- is wholly immune to making mistakes now and then. It's part of being human. We're all just doing the best we can. I don't look at this forum as the ultimate, fail-proof authority for finch-keeping -- because that doesn't exist anywhere. Rather, I consider it a welcoming, friendly and respectful community forum where each of us learns from one another. By pooling our collective insight, experiences, and ideas, we all benefit. That's the beauty of a forum such as this. Any given person at times will be the seeker of an answer. Other times that very same person will be the provider of an answer to another's question. And as in life, no single one of us has ALL the answers, or is right ALL the time.

Yet obviously, not all insight is created equal -- experience adds credibility. As a novice fincher, I'm still earning my wings in this department. So I mostly try to just "listen and learn" for the time being -- and remain fully receptive to any and all ideas offered. I had invested collectively several weeks of time (a few minutes of spare time here, a half-hour or hour there, etc.) to becoming an informed bird parent beginning in February of last year, before finally picking up my birds in October. Eight months of self-imposed finch "boot camp".

I wanted to be as informed as possible, so I read a book on Gouldians from cover to cover -- twice. I read another book on keeping finches. I pored over often conflicting online data on how to do things, including more than a week just trying to sort out the best possible lighting options -- even asking several avian vets for their advice. (Hey, it's the old news reporter in me!) And of course I monitored this forum throughout the 8 months whenever I had time. There were times when these new responsibilities I was preparing to assume seemed overwhelming and hopelessly complicated. I recall almost backing out at one point, when I couldn't find a clear-cut answer on the seed vs. pellets debate! (I ultimately resolved this by deciding to offer them both.) Bottom line: I did my homework.

But as I recently said to Tiffany -- no matter how well prepared you THINK you are before you add birds to your home, some things must be learned only through firsthand experience. After all, as we all know, birds at times develop in ways that simply don't follow the rulebooks! There also are just countless situations bound to arise that were never covered at all in your preparatory research, or if so, then in insufficient detail for you to be able to adequately handle it without the insightful help of others. This forum is absolutely invaluable in that regard. And for every finch whose life has been saved -- or improved -- because of advice proffered here, this forum is priceless.

I know for a fact that my own birds' lives are improved because of this forum and the compassionate dedication of its members. (And I suspect that Tiffany's life has improved as well, because it allows me to avoid pestering her every time I'm fretting over some new development! ) For the numerous nuggets of wisdom offered to me over the last several months, I offer a genuine, heartfelt THANK YOU. I sincerely hope that one day I can feel as confident in my own finching abilities to be as helpful when needed.

Dave,
Your gouldians are beautiful red heads I have had different shades of head colors and breast colors from molt to molt before. I find it interesting when I can have 5 siblings, all eating the same diet...yet can have different shades of head colors. I always figure it's genetics... just like you may have blonde hair and have 4 brother and sisters with blond hair...yet probably different shades of blonde. As we age we all get darker shades of blonde or even brown hair. Just the way pigments/genes work.... Hormones can also affect the colors.. the gouldians are at their brightest and richest colors at the peak of breeding condition.
I would like to say that no matter how many books you read or how many years you have kept finches there is always something new to learn about these delightful birds. Also even seasoned keepers sometimes become stumped with the happenings in their aviaries... Together, hopefully we all learn and bennifit from one anothers experiences.
Glad I could shed some light on bird gas for you