Just recently got into the Zeb mutations, past experience being with Gouldians and other exotics. I am finding that the "more desirable" larger birds are realistically not the kind that would survive in a natural environment. Too big and clumsy and poor flyers. Beautiful and fun and good doers in a confined environment. But the snakey little wild type birds are tough and fast and quick to adapt. So I am keeping wild types that have at least one of the mutations that I want, to help normalize/dilute the saturation of the deleterious effects of mutations. Then I will fly to the moon.
I have experienced this in other species over the past 50 yrs(sheep horses cattle). The farther away you get from its naturally evolved configuration, the more you degrade its ability to survive. Not that it will stop me from experimenting. Anybody else pondering this ?
Zebra finches : wild type vs domestic type.
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608duj
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lovezebs
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Re: Zebra finches : wild type vs domestic type.
608duj
I know where you're coming from.
Look at what they've done to some of the Dog breeds. It breaks my heart when I see a German Shepherd, dragging it's ass on the ground and being considered best in breed, or a huge Great Dane (bred for boar hunting) who can hardly move, because of all the genetic manipulations. Bassett Hounds, who drag their chests on the floor, and look like they have four broken legs, St Bernards, who are aggressive, and Dobermans, who are afraid of their own shadow, and dying from every canine disease known to man.
Turkeys, that can't walk, birds that can't fly..... don't get me going
We tend to lose sight of what we are really doing to a breed or species, once we get on the genetic manipulation band wagon.
I know where you're coming from.
Look at what they've done to some of the Dog breeds. It breaks my heart when I see a German Shepherd, dragging it's ass on the ground and being considered best in breed, or a huge Great Dane (bred for boar hunting) who can hardly move, because of all the genetic manipulations. Bassett Hounds, who drag their chests on the floor, and look like they have four broken legs, St Bernards, who are aggressive, and Dobermans, who are afraid of their own shadow, and dying from every canine disease known to man.
Turkeys, that can't walk, birds that can't fly..... don't get me going
We tend to lose sight of what we are really doing to a breed or species, once we get on the genetic manipulation band wagon.
~Elana~
Linnies~ Canaries ~ Zebras ~ Societies ~ Gouldians ~ Orange Cheeks ~ Shaft Tails ~ Strawberries ~ Red Cheek Cordon Bleu ~ Goldbreasts ~ Red Brows ~ Owls ~ Budgies ~ Diamond Firetails ~ Javas ~ Forbes Parrot Finches ~
Linnies~ Canaries ~ Zebras ~ Societies ~ Gouldians ~ Orange Cheeks ~ Shaft Tails ~ Strawberries ~ Red Cheek Cordon Bleu ~ Goldbreasts ~ Red Brows ~ Owls ~ Budgies ~ Diamond Firetails ~ Javas ~ Forbes Parrot Finches ~
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40whacks
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Re: Zebra finches : wild type vs domestic type.
Interesting...to some extent. The argument that a wild type is a better conformation for SURVIVAL in the WILD is obvious, but why would this matter in a scenario where a mutation is kept in CAPTIVITY?
Now, this isn't a comparison for purebred dogs, that's way off. The English Bulldog has mutated to a point where most have difficulty surviving as a PET.........unreal health issues, skeletal and dietary issues, skin, eye, palate , etc.....these things make it a problem for the Bulldog in every day life. THAT is an issue.
A caged bird doesn't hunt, graze, nest, etc the way wild birds need to.....so, beyond the obvious there are no comparative needs.
A bird, no matter the mutation or type should be healthy, able to move freely, eat, etc in this caged environment. Health is a no brainer.
I enjoy the wild type Zebras...as well as exhibition types......Ive seen no inhibition created by the larger types other than maybe in an open aviary....which again recreates a wild environment. I don't use small breeder set ups, all my pairs are kept in larger cages to begin with.
The one issue of a mutation causing an inhibition to the bird is of course in the case of the Eumo ....but even that can be overcome.
Anyway......interesting discussion.
Now, this isn't a comparison for purebred dogs, that's way off. The English Bulldog has mutated to a point where most have difficulty surviving as a PET.........unreal health issues, skeletal and dietary issues, skin, eye, palate , etc.....these things make it a problem for the Bulldog in every day life. THAT is an issue.
A caged bird doesn't hunt, graze, nest, etc the way wild birds need to.....so, beyond the obvious there are no comparative needs.
A bird, no matter the mutation or type should be healthy, able to move freely, eat, etc in this caged environment. Health is a no brainer.
I enjoy the wild type Zebras...as well as exhibition types......Ive seen no inhibition created by the larger types other than maybe in an open aviary....which again recreates a wild environment. I don't use small breeder set ups, all my pairs are kept in larger cages to begin with.
The one issue of a mutation causing an inhibition to the bird is of course in the case of the Eumo ....but even that can be overcome.
Anyway......interesting discussion.
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Sally
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Re: Zebra finches : wild type vs domestic type.
My personal preference is for the more wild-type conformation in all species. I've seen a few Zebras that looked so fat that I would be surprised if they could fly more than a few feet, and I didn't care for that look. JMO
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40whacks
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Re: Zebra finches : wild type vs domestic type.
my point is, at this point the Zebras are ornamental cage birds. If there was some need for intruding a species back to the wild there'd be some relevance other than a basic like or dislike of a "look".
Also......in most cases, it isn't the TYPE at all...it's the conditioning and husbandry that makes a bird fat or otherwise unable to fly for any length of time.
Show cages are often used to not only train for show examination, but also to limit excercise to keep feather and tail as well as round out the conformation .
Take a fat show bird....put him in a flight....in a month you'll have a different bird!
Also......in most cases, it isn't the TYPE at all...it's the conditioning and husbandry that makes a bird fat or otherwise unable to fly for any length of time.
Show cages are often used to not only train for show examination, but also to limit excercise to keep feather and tail as well as round out the conformation .
Take a fat show bird....put him in a flight....in a month you'll have a different bird!
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w.l.
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Re: Zebra finches : wild type vs domestic type.
I also prefer wild-type birds, and my only zebras are actually wild-caught Timors!
Small, agile, with a rapid song, they are much more interesting to me than any oversized, obese-looking standard zebras meant for shows.
If only breeders had increased body size proportionally... but all large zebras I have seen look obese with undersized bills, looking pathetic compated to thebwild type birds in my eyes.
Of course to all their own.
Small, agile, with a rapid song, they are much more interesting to me than any oversized, obese-looking standard zebras meant for shows.
If only breeders had increased body size proportionally... but all large zebras I have seen look obese with undersized bills, looking pathetic compated to thebwild type birds in my eyes.
Of course to all their own.