FINCHforum

Though quite regularly available on the markets here, I've never seen them in a quantity like today!
I couldn't help but remember those members who said how hard and expensive these birds would be to get in the US.

Partly due to those posts, I did finally add 4 to my aviary a few months ago, 3 still in juvenile plumage. Now they are all in adult color.

w.l.

I have never seen them other than in pictures....

Boy do they ever keep them overcrowded in those cages, with only one little sardine can of water for all to share....

It's strange in a way, how we spoil and baby our birds, with special diets, vitamines, supplements, etc. and here are these poor beggers surviving on next to nothing in such overcrowded conditions.

How on earth do they capture so many of them, and are there any left in the wild?

w.l., they are beautiful! I've never seen this species either. They look like little bald eagles!

w.l. - These pictures just break my heart. All these lovely birds (and thousands more of all kinds of different species, I'm sure) squished into small cages. I am so happy I am far enough away that I'm not tempted to buy them all and release them back into the wild!
Wish you could buy a few hundred, ship them to the US and Canada and we would get lots of people (on the forum and friends) to buy them and spoil them rotten...
Lucky are the ones you bought...
Iso

Hopefully, those birds are only this overcrowded for the market, and then are moved to bigger cages when home? If not, then the losses must be tremendous. I've seen a few of these at shows, but they are rare in the U.S.

Sally

I don't think these little guys, are moved anywhere other than into a buyers cage, or tossed out when they're dead as a quick meal to feral cats and dogs or whomever else is hungry enough to collect them.

w.l. These mannikins are very difficult to get of in South Africa. It is regarded as a colony bird and supposedly breed better in colonies. My cousin just had a pair and they bred quite prolific for him. It is a great favourite of mine, but is too pricey for me to buy.

I feel bad for those birds, no room to spread their little wings. Makes me want to buy a few and spoil them rotten.

w.l. - if there are that many birds - and I'm assuming many different species - available in many markets all over Indonesia/Asia, who buys them? Are there that many people keeping finches as a hobby? There has to be a market for these hundreds/thousands of birds. Otherwise they wouldn't be offered in these astonishing numbers.
Iso

I neighboring Malaysia, where birdshops stock even more munias, most are sold to Chinese for release in Buddhist ceremonies aimed at bringing good luck for the good deed. Very silly, as birds are specifically captured to be sold for release, and many die before and after releasing anyway, so that 'charitable' tradition actually harms birds a lot.

The luckiest ones might be bought for release here, too. But Indonesia's Chinese population is smaller and less traditional-minded than Malaysia's.
As these pics were taken at a whole-sales seller, they will mostly go to smaller sellers at markets. And then... As I had said, the luckiest ones might be bought for release, the unlickiest ones as toys for kids (we had discussed this before). The ones in between might be bought as pets. I am not sure how lucky those are, as typically pet finches are kept in cages sized ca 20*20*30 cm, often smaller.
Crazily, some people buy them hoping to train them to sing as canaries!

Talking of cage size, what is seen as suitable seems to be based more on the country's tradition than anything. I noticed US finchkeepers tend to use smaller cages than Europeans, and Asians use even smaller ones.
And all think their size is fine.

Apparently these nuns breed best in an aviary, but sometimes good pairs can breed in cages. Apparently breeding success is greatly increased if one buys a flock of birds still in juvenile color, puts them in an aviary and lets them choose their own partners.

While Asian imports are generally a no-no these days, the fact that strawberries were imported from Singapore to the US in recent years shows it can still be done.
Maybe you should lobby the importers to bring these in - if they see enough demand, thery might try.
And should they come in, they should be bought in groups, not pairs, and put in aviaries, not cages, if they are to be established by breeding.

Wish good luck to all those hoping to get some!

@lovezebs, they are caught with nets. Generally considered common, they are nowhere as common as spice finches and Javan munias and are now rare in many areas, sometimes absent from the markets for weeks.

@Marius, want to barter some for Violet-eared waxbills or Rosy twinspots, please?

w.l.

That's the concern with many wild caught birds that become popular. If there is a sudden demand, then the demand must be met with a supply, and sadly that's how natural populations become depleted to the brink of extinction. Thousand of these birds must be caught, and I am sure many many die, before several hundreds reach the market place, and many then die in captivity, with never having had the opportunity and the right conditions to reproduce.

Well, the markets here are close to where they are caught, so most reach the buyers alive - this is different from birds going overseas.
However, once sold, I am pretty sure ALL die without reproducing. These aptly named nuns are hard enough to get to breed in the West, and over here I have not heard of a single case of them breeding in captivity. They are not even particularly popular. It's just that here any bird that can be caught and sold, will be. It's a bit like picking wildflowers to take home - people know they won't last long, but do so for momentary fun.

But be honest - what percentage of imported waxbills still reaching North America do you reckon end up kept in conditions enabling them to breed? And unlike Indonesians, Westerners do have access to good info on how their birds should be kept properly, if only they bothered to do the reading.
But where are all those munias, nuns and other species once freely imported to North America in their thousands and available for a pittance? Almost all died without leaving offspring behind.
In Europe and Australia the situation seems a bit better, but even there they have not really become common as captive-bred birds.

w.l.

Sad, but oh so true.

We, all of us, like the idea of keeping these little pretties for our pleasure, but very very few of us have the knowledge, or the aviary space needed for a lot of these birds to thrive and breed succesfully. And, even if we do manage to breed them, we once again don't have the space to keep all the offspring, thereby being forced to rehome them, and the cycle continus.

w.l. Anytime. We also have a sub-specie of green twin-spots that is particularly beautiful. Our swee's are also beautiful. Just tell me where to send it.

MariusStegmann

Those Black-faced swees of yours are a dream of mine, as are violet-eared waxbills!
I'd also love to have Cape sparrows.
Green twins I am happy with my schlegeli.
So hard for me to imagine that these common, humble nuns are dream birds for others.