Gouldian Finch mutations

[debbie276]

Sea green and lime from what I understand are new mutations being worked on. Not sure we have a strong mutation of those available yet though.

[tqcenter2002c]

Thanks Debbie,
So from what I understand - no genetic is known right now on the Lime or Sea Green, Correct?
Is this a local mutation that occurs only at one bird-house (the same that happened with the "George" Zebra Finch mutation) Or is it world wide mutation?

• Does Sea (not "see" as I mistakenly mentioned all the time) Green is different from the Lime Green, or it is a combination that inherit from one to another? Hope you understand my question.

As I see it, The Sea-Green has both SF pastel Blue and SF pastel Green phenotypes, It can't be green since it is dominant, correct? It can't be DF of one of them, right?
And the Lime Green is SF Pastel Green and SF Yellow.
That is how I see it, I am using here the basic that I have learned trying to "know the Salad ingredients" and also doing coloring combination like an artist will do with a pallet of colors.

• Sea-Green = (SF pastel) Blue + (SF pastel) Green
• Lime Green = (SF pastel) Green + (SF) Yellow.

This is my assumption only.

These new mutations can lead to a whole new line of mutations... when the coloring is in the right proportions that probably be a great bird, otherwise it will be - "dirtying the genes" .. I am not sure I chose the right words here.

I am sure the professionals Gouldian breeders know what I mean and hopefully shade some light on what I just assumed right now.
If anyone know about a place that we can find information about these two new mutations I would be happy to know.

• And one more question regarding the "Pure White" - Why it must be Black Head and not Red Head or Yellow?

Thanks in advance,
All the best and happy bird-keeping.
Eric

[debbie276]

If you do a seach on this site, upper right corner is the link. Search "sea green gouldian" and "lime gouldian". Several pages of posts should come up. I believe our member willbill from Australia works with the lime. You should be able to Finns what your looking for and/or people working with them.

[debbie276]

And one more question regarding the "Pure White" - Why it must be Black Head and not Red Head or Yellow?

A Black head Pastel and/or Pastel Blue has a white head color where Red or Yellow head does not

[GouldianGuy]

And one more question regarding the "Pure White" - Why it must be Black Head and not Red Head or Yellow?

A Black head Pastel and/or Pastel Blue has a white head color where Red or Yellow head does not

If I'm correct it is because the Pastel gene "neutralizes" black and only black.

[monotwine]

Gouldian Guy I understand it this way too. The pastel gene affects the ability of the bird to show black. Double factor (for males) pastel will inhibit all black and make it look white. Hens only need SF to look white head.

The seagreen and limes are very new and I'm not sure if there is proof it is a colour genetic thing. It could very possibly be a structural coloration. A physical attribute of the feather structure at a microscopic level that allows different refraction of light and therefore affects the overall colour of green visible e.g. a Peacock is a prime example of this. Obviously the more they are bred to exhibit the colour the more the gene is passed on. I will be interesting to see what the final verdict is with these mutations.
As a mutation it will be interesting to see if it is genetically dominant or not. The structural coloration would then be an additional fruit for our fruit salad.

[tqcenter2002c]

Thank you, Debbie.
I have start my investigation of the Lime and Sea Green Mutations, And did a search here and got TMI, But it is good since I want to learn it thoroughly and I like it when there is a lot of information regarding a mutation It also will help me build the mutation in my Data-Base if the mutation final test verdict would be - Yes!

I have come up with more acronyms word - VDM1a - Not sure what that means since it might be a private code that they have been using.. and ONLY in this forum I have seen this word: VDM1a and also VDM2a and VDM3a - I would be happy to know what is that word stands for, Just to be able to understand it more - If anyone can help me understand it I would be happy and much appreciate!
It is ONLY the beginning for me and I would investigate them to understand them as much as I can.

Just in case someone knows -

• Does Lime and Sea-Green and Opaline have Red Head, Black Head and Yellow head? or they are only effect one head variation?

And yes I have also need to learn Opaline, of which have the most info in the forum and that word I was asking about is referred in the article around the Opaline mutation.

Will continue investigate all and I would be happy if some one can give me guidlines so i would be able to learn them in the RIGHT way and not getting lost along the way.

GouldianGuy and monotwine, I see it the same way as you do and it is clear to me that way. Thanks.

Thanks for your help.
Have a wonderful day.
Eric

[GouldianGuy]

I have come up with more acronyms word - VDM1a - Not sure what that means since it might be a private code that they have been using.. and ONLY in this forum I have seen this word: VDM1a and also VDM2a and VDM3a - I would be happy to know what is that word stands for, Just to be able to understand it more - If anyone can help me understand it I would be happy and much appreciate!
It is ONLY the beginning for me and I would investigate them to understand them as much as I can.

And yes I have also need to learn Opaline, of which have the most info in the forum and that word I was asking about is referred in the article around the Opaline mutation.

If I am not mistaken, Opaline, VDM1a , etc... were just bird names... not secret codes or mutation names. Could be wrong

[tqcenter2002c]

If I am not mistaken, Opaline, VDM1a , etc... were just bird names... not secret codes or mutation names. Could be wrong

I can't tell about the VDM* Names - But I am almost positive that Opaline is not a name.
On this Forum page dealing with Opaline They talk about Sea-Green vs Opaline - That is what I understood form there. And also...

"So, what is Opaline Gouldian for me?
Candace inspired me this name because these birds have all colors of opaline gems...including orange and pink!!!"
and also..
"The back and wings are really bluer but when you watch feather individually, you see complete palette of colors..really dark then orange-brown, green, blue and finally in some feathers purple or pink...the belly, contrarily to sea green, is light yellow, not as pale as sea green has... and contrarily to Seagreen and Noble Blue who tend to lost the blue color after molting, Opaline's gouldian keep their colors, molt after molt...
The posterior part of the neck is bright green to yellow or base of green feathers is orange-red..."

It looks like this is not a name but a description of the feathering on the back of the bird. I am not sure what Opaline means but it might be reffering to : Opaline glass - The term "opaline" in current times refers to many forms of opaque and colored glass.. that might be the same as with the coloring of the back of the bird - therefore that is why they chose the name Opaline. I think.

Regarding the other VDM1a, VDM2a etc.. I believe they can be names of the birds themselves - but why using this type of naming pattern? maybe there is something behind the VDM? and then again maybe not.. I don't know.

GouldianGuy thanks for trying to elaborate on this..
will continue with my investigation on the Lime and sea-green and Opaline as well.
I would be happy to get any assistance and guidelines with these three (and even if there are more I would be glad to know).

Thanks,
Happy Bird-keeping
Eric

[tqcenter2002c]

Continuing my investigation..

I would be happy to know if the followings images indicates the same bird in each part:

1. Is this Black Head LILAC Breast Green (Normal)?
   

   ---

2. Is this Red Head Purple Breast Opaline

Still working on the Sea-Green and Lime that I could not have found good pictures here in the forum.
I would be happy if someone can show me the difference between all the three.

• Also I am not sure that I have understood the SF Green thoroughly - Is it Dilute Green, they are the same?

Thanks so much!
Happy week of bird keeping
Eric

[monotwine]

Lower left side of the BH LB GB that looks like a normal Purple breasted hen to me. Hens who are lilac breast should have a very faint mauve color. The males are possibly lilac breasted in those photos.
Here we consider the "opaline" to be green backs with good bluish sheen. Not a recognized mutation that I know of yet. Its not uniform in offspring.

[monotwine]

A Single Factor green back, or dilute. One of my previous birds.
The best way to know its a single factor/dilute is the black markings all become grey, the green becomes lightly washed out and the head and chest colours stay brilliant.

KBG MM 4431.jpg (73.57 KiB) Viewed 1263 times

[debbie276]

A Single Factor green back, or dilute.

I've never heard a SF Pastel aka SF Yellow aka "dilute" referred to as a SF green before. Wouldn't a Single Factor green mean they only have a single green gene rather then a single pastel (or "yellow") gene?

[GouldianGuy]

Handsome bird

[tqcenter2002c]

I've never heard a SF Pastel aka SF Yellow aka "dilute" referred to as a SF green before. Wouldn't a Single Factor green mean they only have a single green gene rather then a single pastel (or "yellow") gene?

That is exactly what I can't really understand.
A dilute coloring of a body is referring to the main base color that it was diluted from, correct?

So if a base Black head PB Green is diluted - is it SF Green?
The green is DF Green - I am not even sure that it is correct, But I am trying to understand it and making it easy for me to understand all the variation that are out there regarding Green varieties.
Lime, Sea-Green, Opaline and a Diluted Green - are all looks in general the same. So How can we tell them apart?

To begin with I need to have the Normal green as reference and make sure I compare each one to it and understand them more..

So to be sure I need to have some guidelines on other differences besides tha body coloring - if any exists.
Also taking in consideration all three head colors as well. So ..
Do we have Dilute RH and BH and YH?

I understand that Dilute comes from the Normal ONLY so we have Dilute Only on Green bodies and others we call SF and DF? in that case we can or can not call a diluted Green SF? Is that semantic or we just can't?

Also, since the Sea-Green and Opaline are new mutations - Does any of you seen them other then this forum? I would be happy to know. Also I am interested to know are there also Black head Opalines and Sea-greens and Yellow head Opalines and Sea-greens?

I have mentioned the Lime - is that a mutation? I have NOT heard any of the forum members talking about them at all. So maybe I am looking in a Diluted Green that is referred as Lime and they are the same, Or maybe not?

I would be happy if someone can help me understand to sort things out with the Green Body variations so I would be able to make the Database collection with accuracy as much as I can.

Thanks,
Eric