Feather toy for zebra pluckers

[Stuart whiting]

lovezebs

Elana if you read me last post you'll notice that I did actually mention parrots of which I can go along with as regards to toys,

I never once said that finches don't need to be stimulated but can't see the sence of paying money out for toys when bushing an avairy out with natural foliage surely can't be beaten, end of the day it's natural to the birds

Ok so not every one can have avaires but there's nothing stopping em from putting various branches and other little bits of vegetation in the cages for the birds to clamber through,

I sometimes Put a bundle of runner beans in the cage and the birds will spend all day long inspecting literally every millimetre of the bundle for the numerous aphids that'll be there,

In the autumn and winter I'll give me birds all various bunches of the wild grasses etc, this certainly keeps em entertained for many hrs,

This is just an example of what can be done for finches to keep em stimulated but at the same time keeping things as natural for the birds as possible.

far better than some silly wooden or plastic toy that is supposed to be manufactured for finches

[sparrowsong98]

May I just add in that my birds slide quickly down the perch that their bell is right beside, hitting the bell with their heads. Then they fly back to the other end to do it again. Why oh why dont they just learn! I imagine that hurts!

[lovezebs]

sparrowsong98

They probably do it on purpose to ring the bell... .

[sparrowsong98]

lovezebs excactly! But just learn. And, Macho viciously attacks the mirror. For most of the day.

[Stuart whiting]

lovezebs excactly! But just learn. And, Macho viciously attacks the mirror. For most of the day.

Mmm......I really fail to understand why people would use mirrors for birds, is it normal......NO

Why antagonise and deliberately upset some birds by putting a mirror in the cage, people think that they are doing birds a favour by pretending to give a bird a mate, this couldn't actually be further from the truth as all it's doing is confusing the birds

I often wander for the manufacturers that come up with these toys and mirrors etc if they've really got half a brain and actually know anything about birds, probably knot

Wanders never seize to amaze me and the sad part about it is that many inexperienced and beginner bird keepers all fall for the use of such items and are not really none of the wiser,

Sad as it may seem but many are well and truly hooked on the idea and automatically think that all birds need little wooden, plastic toys and mirrors and in fact couldn't be further from the truth.

If one wants birds to be stimulated then use natural branches in cages and for avaires bush em out with various cover, branches and logs,
Also give em various wild foods like wild grasses etc to clamber over and pick through,

As I mentioned before yer can't beat using natural items for birds, it's not rocket science

[Sheather]

Hey guess what, I give mine mirrors. The birds love them.

The issue with providing a mirror applies only to solitary birds (which I don't think is ethical in many cases anyway, given how social birds are.) With a living bird companion, no bird will bond to its reflection. Some territorial birds will initially see the reflection as a rival but they soon get over it and learn that the reflection bird isn't a threat (or... the smarter ones do. If your bird really only views its mirror as a rival, the mirror isn't providing any benefit.)

The parakeets (a pair, so they don't think of it as their mate) like sitting together and chatting to their reflections when they're drowsing off and getting ready to sleep. It's a fun, interactive toy.

My canaries (also a bonded pair who are always kept together) are really fond of one which is double-sided and spins around when they peck at it, and they take turns spinning it. There's no aggressive posturing or courting behavior, they just have fun manipulating it. I don't know what they think the little bird faces in the mirror are, but they don't view them with anything more than curiosity, and so I always give them a mirror to fiddle with because it does entertain them.

Birds enjoy mirrors and bells and other "unnatural rubbish" in the same way humans enjoy video games and race cars and other unnatural activities. They still keep their minds occupied and give them something to do. Natural things are good and great to provide but unnatural things like those plastic toys and mirrors are not inherently bad. Environmental enrichment can take many forms - whether it's seeding grasses for finches, a bell toy for a budgie, or a wheel for a gerbil, if it keeps the animal entertained it's good!

[lovezebs]

Stuart whiting

I have birds who enjoy their mirrors, and others who ignore them.

One of my Budgies, has conversations with his mirror, and has been known to try and feed his reflection . He is not, by the way, a solitary bird.

Canaries love admiring themselves in mirrors, and will actually pose in front of them and move them around to reflect light on the walls.

All of my birds love swings, and sometimes will have arguments with one another about who gets to the swings first... can never have enough swings.

Artificial vines and folliage, is greatly appreciated by all of my birds, offering cover, hiding places, privacy, fun play, and stimulation.

Foraging boxes, are enjoyed by all of my birds, offering hours of entertainment.

Ladders, are loved by everyone, especially the ones that will swing.

Foraging and shredding toys are definitely made use of, and some of the soft toys, are used for preening, fussing with, and sleeping on, also making soft perching spots for fledglings.

I do use natural branches, wild grasses, etc whenever possible, which I have mentioned in several of my posts over the years...

so this is nothing new.

That said, which natural grasses and greens would you opt for in my environment during our Winters here?

What I'm saying, is that we should try to offer our birds some form of stimulation in their very un-natural captive lives, be it through toys, foraging options, natural branches, artificial folliage, mirrors, swings, etc.

[Sally]

Interesting discussion but let's keep it civil. No one should be made to feel that their way of providing toys or stimulation for their birds is inferior to anyone else's. Each member works out their own program and if it works for them and their birds, then it is a good program. We should all be supportive of others, whether or not we agree with their methods. Toys are not going to harm our little finches.

[Stuart whiting]

[quote="lovezebs"][url=http://www.finchforum.com/memberlist.ph ... %20whiting][b]Stuart whiting[/b][/url]

I have birds who enjoy their mirrors, and others who ignore them.

One of my Budgies, has conversations with his mirror, and has been known to try and feed his reflection . He is not, by the way, a solitary bird.

Canaries love admiring themselves in mirrors, and will actually pose in front of them and move them around to reflect light on the walls.

All of my birds love swings, and sometimes will have arguments with one another about who gets to the swings first... can never have enough swings.

Artificial vines and folliage, is greatly appreciated by all of my birds, offering cover, hiding places, privacy, fun play, and stimulation.

Foraging boxes, are enjoyed by all of my birds, offering hours of entertainment.

Ladders, are loved by everyone, especially the ones that will swing.

Foraging and shredding toys are definitely made use of, and some of the soft toys, are used for preening, fussing with, and sleeping on, also making soft perching spots for fledglings.

I do use natural branches, wild grasses, etc whenever possible, which I have mentioned in several of my posts over the years...[attachment=3]20170904_121255.jpg[/attachment]so this is nothing new.

That said, which natural grasses and greens would you opt for in my environment during our Winters here?[attachment=2]IMG_20171114_161605.jpg[/attachment][attachment=1]IMG_20171114_163344.jpg[/attachment][attachment=0]IMG_20171114_160036.jpg[/attachment]

What I'm saying, is that we should try to offer our birds some form of stimulation in their very un-natural captive lives, be it through toys, foraging options, natural branches, artificial folliage, mirrors, swings, etc.[/quote]





ELANA


Have got no intention or interest in taking this any further, if you really think it's necessary for birds to have toys then that's obviously upto you, swings and ladders IE for climbing parakeets etc I could accept,

However the use of mirrors and silly soft cuddly type of toys as you so put it really makes me think that I unfortunately can't really class you as a specialist breeder of finches, here in England and throughout the whole of Europe come to think of it I personally don't know of one single specialist finch breeder who would put " toys " in with there finches, not unless they wanna be laughed at by other serious breeders,

Why would others laugh you might add, well because any self respecting finch breeder would simply and plainly know that finches don't need toys,

As I say I'm not going any further with this and I rest me case :roll:

Oh yea you mention what wild foods in winter, providing it obviously ain't covered in snow there's plenty of Rye grass, Dock and numerous edible berries that many birds like to eat, picking through the various berries on branch cuttings will amuse birds for hrs aswell as being good for em

[debbie276]

There is absolutely no reason to put ANYONE down because they enjoy their birds differently then you!

[lovezebs]

To Whom it may concern,

I would welcome 'specialist breeders' laughing at me and my playful birds. I would laugh right along with them, and maybe they would watch and learn something new .

I guess I will never be a "specialist finch breeder" lol, but tell that to my happy 'very special' and breeding finches .

Live and let live, and never stop learning !!!

[Babs _Owner]

Stuart whiting

Here's a recent picture of one of my gouldians and his cage with just a few of his many toys.

Show this to your buddies ;) They will all have heart attacks. *giggle*

[Stuart whiting]

Stuart whiting

Here's a recent picture of one of my gouldians and his cage with just a few of his many toys.

Show this to your buddies ;) They will all have heart attacks. *giggle*

Yep many have already had a good laugh across the globe

Many have come to realise that it's like an Americanised thing but there again Americans have always been known for way over the top and exaggerating about stuff and having stupid ideas,

That is why a lot of European specialist breeders don't really wanna take American breeders all that seriously

Many of us have already come to realise this over the years just by telling the crap seed mixes that are available throughout America IE by bulking out with pellets, I seriously don't know of hardly any other country throughout the world that supplies seed loaded up with pellets,
Seems to be mainly an Americanised thing once again,
Anyhow this is another story.

That's the difference between many of us around the world,
some of us actually specialise in breeding and exhibiting birds whilst others prefer to play and dither around with their birds

[Sheather]

Providing environmental enrichment to a pet stuck living in a cage isn't stupid.

That anyone would think it's something ridiculous and worth ridicule is unfortunate. No, someone doesn't have to give birds bells and preening toys but it's not totally frivolous and it does give them something to do. If you give your birds wild green food every day of every year that's good and it's enrichment but it's not something most people can or will do. The typical pet bird lives in an empty cage with two or three sticks and nothing else to do. If it's lucky, it's at least a barred cage where it can climb on the sides, and not one of those dreadful totally sterile box cages where they really can't do anything but hop from one stick to the other back and forth (assuming the cage isn't set up with foliage, swings or other things to engage with). That is not a quality of life. The birds will breed in barren conditions and so people assume they're perfectly content but that's because it's about the only thing they can do in the extremely unnatural conditions forced upon them.

In these cases a stupid little toy or three in the enclosure that they can manipulate certainly can't hurt. Finches are not stupid creatures. Given the opportunities to use their brains, and for a finch even just playing with a feather toy or a bell is something, they really are rather intelligent animals with unique personalities. Unfortunately they really cannot develop them the way most people raise them.

Personally more than anything I am a proponent to letting all pet birds out of their cages - this is the absolute best enrichment there is. It's not necessarily doable with breeders with dozens of pairs but for the typical pet owner it's something I strongly encourage. The difference in behavior between my birds raised this way and those raised in cages is obvious. My birds are smarter and more well-adjusted animals.

In the end everyone will do things how they want and we can only hope to stay open-minded and not call each other's methods stupid and crappy. However, there are always going to be better and lesser ways to manage animals, and hopefully we all strive toward the former, even if it is not the cultural norm where we may live. In America, we give our finches toys (if not commercial bird toys, then still fake foliage, swings, things to pick at and play with). In Britain, apparently these are only seen as worthwhile for parrots. And in Asia and the Middle East, from what I have seen online most bird owners don't consider even parrots to need anything to play with and a very barren cage is very much the norm for all pet birds large and small. But that doesn't mean it's necessarily best for the animals.

[Babs _Owner]

Stuart whiting

I knew you'd get a kick outta that. ;) That's Midget's cage in my office.

He's pretty much blind. He can only see blurs of color.

As for being a "stupid idea", it turned out to be a great solution for boredom for him.

The bright colors stimulate what little sight he has....draws him to the objects and the plastics clanking and the bells tinkling stimulate him with their varieties of sound.

He especially enjoys experimenting with sounds. Without proper eyesight, audio stimulation becomes even more important.

This wasn't "silly" or "over the top" .....it took a few months of carefully observing him all day by my desk as I worked, analysing how his eyesight was impacted.......then finding the solution to improve his life.

Without toys, he really would have much less of a quality of life.. And he's several years old now, singing daily and having a good time daily with "toys".

My Java finches are intelligent and as curious any parakeet. They enjoy toys and bells as well.