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Finch relationships vs/ hermit crabs? Species buddies?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:33 am
by OldGregg
Hello! I am new and doing a lot of reading before I make any decisions.
With hermit crabs (I know they are not finches but...) they have to have a species buddy. Two hermits of different species cannot communicate, and since they are highly social they need to be around their own.
If I want to raise two finches (hypothetically) do they need a species buddy? Is it ok to have two different species of finches (as long as size, temperament, and diet is the same)?
I am also wondering if the answers to my questions change based on if we are talking about finches from the Fringillidae family vs the Estrildidae?
Thank you everyone =)
Re: Finch relationships vs/ hermit crabs? Species buddies?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:30 am
by Icearstorm
OldGregg
Generally it's best to have two birds of the same species, although some birds like society finches can learn to communicate with different species. Take
Babs's society finch and blind gouldian, for example.
Canaries are one of the few birds that are usually fine on their own.
Re: Finch relationships vs/ hermit crabs? Species buddies?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:12 am
by Fraza
I agree because my heck paired up with my society finch
Also my other heck tried to mate with one of my zebras
Re: Finch relationships vs/ hermit crabs? Species buddies?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:53 am
by OldGregg
Thank you guys =) That is such a sweet story about Bab's and Buttercup.
Re: Finch relationships vs/ hermit crabs? Species buddies?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:57 am
by OldGregg
Fraza wrote:
I agree because my heck paired up with my society finch
Also my other heck tried to mate with one of my zebras
Do you think that is a heck thing? One of my friend's love birds has tried to feed a toy frog, his play rings, bunch of other things lol.
Can a heck mate with a zebra? I read that there are mule birds but apparently they are controversial.
Re: Finch relationships vs/ hermit crabs? Species buddies?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:40 pm
by Sheather
Hermit crabs rely on scent cues and these are all wrong between species so it doesn't work. Though finches have an instinctive knowledge, usually, of how another of their species looks and sounds most will bond to another bird species if it's what's available, and they can still identify another finch species as still being a finch. The different finch species can learn each other's calls and communicate through the behaviors they do share especially if raised from a young age. The ease with which species will bond across species lines is largely dependent on the extent of their relationship. Estrildids bond better to other estrildids than to Fringillids, but there are exceptions; Gouldians are not cuddly as a rule, and may not be a satisfactory partner for a species which is, like a society or zebra.
A zebra and a society usually will bond and do well, so will a society and a spice, or a silverbill, or any of the similarly small highly cuddly finches. You're less likely to have a canary bond strongly to a zebra finch or a Gouldian and a Java become best buddies because they behave a bit differently, but it's not impossible. You can also raise more distantly related birds together and have them bond, if they are behaviorally similar. I had a dove and cockatiel form a pair bond - both are about the same size, were the same color, and liked to sit next to and preen a mate, so they were a good match.
Re: Finch relationships vs/ hermit crabs? Species buddies?
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:23 am
by OldGregg
Sheather wrote:
Hermit crabs rely on scent cues and these are all wrong between species so it doesn't work. Though finches have an instinctive knowledge, usually, of how another of their species looks and sounds most will bond to another bird species if it's what's available, and they can still identify another finch species as still being a finch. The different finch species can learn each other's calls and communicate through the behaviors they do share especially if raised from a young age. The ease with which species will bond across species lines is largely dependent on the extent of their relationship. Estrildids bond better to other estrildids than to Fringillids, but there are exceptions; Gouldians are not cuddly as a rule, and may not be a satisfactory partner for a species which is, like a society or zebra.
A zebra and a society usually will bond and do well, so will a society and a spice, or a silverbill, or any of the similarly small highly cuddly finches. You're less likely to have a canary bond strongly to a zebra finch or a Gouldian and a Java become best buddies because they behave a bit differently, but it's not impossible. You can also raise more distantly related birds together and have them bond, if they are behaviorally similar. I had a dove and cockatiel form a pair bond - both are about the same size, were the same color, and liked to sit next to and preen a mate, so they were a good match.
This is fascinating! Thank you! Part of what I have been looking into is which family I am interested in. Would it be considered unethical to get two different species in the same family with similar behavior and size? Or is it seen as more of a "if you have to" situation?
I also wondered what it was about hermits! I thought it might have to do with their antenna but now I know it's their scent!
Re: Finch relationships vs/ hermit crabs? Species buddies?
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:10 pm
by Fraza
OldGregg yeah they can breed but me personally I don’t agree with it
But it is crazy they proper nested together the society and heck and say on some eggs for me
Re: Finch relationships vs/ hermit crabs? Species buddies?
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:32 pm
by Fernando
A caged bird is not free to choose, specially if there is no real space and not many birds to choose from. In a big aviary, if different species bond even if there where partners of the same species available, it would be ok.
But in a little setting, a little cage, two different birds just for the pleasure of the owner to have more visual fun, I wouldn't consider it adequate. There is no need to fret the birds, don't do it. These little ones depend to an higher extend from our decisions than would a cat or a dog. That two species can bond doesn't mean that they prefer another species - they don't.
Re: Finch relationships vs/ hermit crabs? Species buddies?
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:45 pm
by Sheather
If you would like two different finches, that should be fine assuming you pick those with similar behaviors.
Re: Finch relationships vs/ hermit crabs? Species buddies?
Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:21 am
by Fernando
Allopreening is a behaviour some animals show to minimize intraspecific aggression and establish a form of hierarchy between the members of a group. It plays a role in bonding of pairs. It is an inherent behaviour. If there is another species of bird that does permit this, it can happen between birds of different species. On the same way, e.g. two male owl finches, who were constantly preening and 'cuddling' when young, now - with a year of age - don't even sit together nor sleep in the same nest. As they have plenty of space to fly away and chase each other - one is 'alpha' to one of the feeding places, while to other is 'alpha' of one of the nests - there is no real problem in terms of getting hurt. They love to fly and do pirouettes, and sometimes I wonder if these 'chasing behaviour' is just a pretext to fly in company. But this would be too much of human interpretation.
Imagine these two in my first cage, 105cm long but only 35 cm high and wide, much longer than most of the cages sold here. They couldn't show this behaviour in no way. Like the birds in the shop in their vending-cages: all together on one plastic perch, just because of sheer fear. But we 'like to see' cosy birds cuddling...
Re: Finch relationships vs/ hermit crabs? Species buddies?
Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:14 pm
by Sheather
Housing two male birds of the same species that don't seem particularly bonded doesn't sound better than two birds of different species that are in my opinion. I have had pair bonds form between zebra and society finches, zebra and silverbill, and society finch and spice finch plus budgie and cockatiel (the budgie bonded to both a male and female cockatiel and helped raise their young while in an aviary with nine other budgies) and a dove and a cockatiel (both birds had others of their own species and chose each other anyway.)
Birds just need some sort of company.
Re: Finch relationships vs/ hermit crabs? Species buddies?
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:07 am
by Fernando
??
Don't confound 'purpose' with 'unintentionally'. Animals aren't toys.
Re: Finch relationships vs/ hermit crabs? Species buddies?
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:13 am
by Sally
OldGregg I always kept birds in species pairs (or more), and they are definitely happier to have a buddy of their own species. However, now that I am downsizing, I have not replaced mates that have died, and the odd mates have paired up for companionship. Not ideal, but in their old age, they do want a companion.